This episode of #TBNE features Business Strategist, Author (soon to be), and Adjunct Professor Matthew Lee Sawyer. We tackle a HOT TAKE! Is understanding culture and marketing more important than product market fit? Tune it to hear Matt and Rob’s thoughts on this topic and be sure to check out Matt’s book, now available for presale, at www.matthewleesawyer.com. Don't forget to subscribe and leave a review.
Show Summary
This episode of #TBNE features Business Strategist, Author (soon to be), and Adjunct Professor Matthew Lee Sawyer. We tackle a HOT TAKE!
Is understanding culture and marketing more important than product market fit?
Tune it to hear Matt and Rob’s thoughts on this topic and be sure to check out Matt’s book, now available for presale, at www.matthewleesawyer.com.
Don't forget to subscribe and leave a review.
Connect with Matthew Lee Sawyer:
Connect with Rob:
Show Produced by: Niranjan Deshpande (Nick), Broken Frames Studio, www.brokenframesstudio.com
Creative Director: Maxim Sokolov, www.maximsokolov.com
Special offer for #BearNation listeners who are interested in trying Brilliantly Warm (https://www.brilliantly.co/), use this 10% off discount code WELCOME10.
We have teamed up with Phin, a social impact company, to give back for each episode to the communities that we serve. To learn more or get involved with Phin for your company, visit: https://www.phinforgood.com/
EPISODE 77 - ARE YOU MAKING THIS STARTUP MISTAKE?
INTRO
00:00:07:05 - 00:00:41:06
Rob Napoli
Bear Nation, how are we doing? It's your host rob napoli and a little bonus episode. I have matt sawyer back on. matt is as business and marketing strategiest who teaches brand strategy, business strategy, marketing comms at Columbia and NYU and formerly at Parsons and has a book that will be coming out in November of 2022 called Make It in America and If You Haven't Had a chance, we did a full episode about the book and kind of his story and what he wanted to make an impact on.
MAIN VIDEO
00:00:41:06 - 00:01:05:01
Rob Napoli
But one of the things we're talking about pre show that didn't make it is the episode that I wanted to talk about was Matt's hot take about entrepreneurship. That is kind of contrary to popular opinion. And I think this is great. And Matt, it's said to me understanding culture and marketing is more important than product or services, and I would love to have you expand on that a little bit.
00:01:05:17 - 00:01:14:10
Rob Napoli
I'll I have a big opinion on this as well, but I want to like let you share yours. Yeah. First I thought that was a great it's kind of a great hot take.
00:01:15:11 - 00:01:42:11
Matt Sawyer
Well, thank you. And hello, Bear Nation. Yeah, we were talking about just in terms of this idea, so many in terms of new companies and entrepreneurs, you know, so focused in on the product, getting the best product together and best service and then miss out in terms of, you know, where it's going to land, understanding the context of the the customer, where it's going to land and sort of understanding the cultural aspect of it.
00:01:42:23 - 00:02:09:11
Matt Sawyer
So in my book I talk a lot about that I had worked with there's a group out of Finland, the Hofstetter insights, that have said it was based on 30 years of kind of research in 100 plus countries in terms of what are the cultural differences to talk about that. But one example that I had from the book, and it's a case study in the book, it's about a German window company called Manc.
00:02:09:19 - 00:02:37:05
Matt Sawyer
And so in 2014, this is the German window company which had been in business for over 120 years in Germany, making very fine high end windows, decided that they're going to expand their U.S. business by coming here. They set up a joint venture with another company. They built a $10 million factory, and then two years later, they closed the factory and that subsidiary went bankrupt.
00:02:38:00 - 00:03:00:15
Matt Sawyer
And the reason for it was, is that they didn't understand the culture. So, for example, in Germany, people use windows where you tilt and you twist and you pull it into a room where in America, you know, we use with their double hung windows or casement windows that go out. The other thing is, is that, you know, energy costs.
00:03:00:15 - 00:03:35:08
Matt Sawyer
So they're high energy efficient windows that they had. There were twice as or three times as much money as these other windows and Americans because the cost of of of energy here, it's gotten a little bit, you know, more equal. But with so much less than Germany that that wasn't as much of an issue. So it's really they've misread the whole cultural aspect as well as a lot of other mistakes they made in terms of understanding the talent that they were bringing in.
00:03:35:19 - 00:03:50:16
Matt Sawyer
But in that particular case, they were so focused in on their product and they didn't look at these other aspects in terms of the culture and the environment. So we get into a bunch of things like that in the book also.
00:03:50:16 - 00:04:10:08
Rob Napoli
Well, you know, I find it very interesting because in my opinion I see this happening a lot is similar to what you're saying. There's a lot of great products and services and in fact, I think a lot of startups that are in today's market are all derivative of each other. they're like, how can I, one x this, there's a new feature.
00:04:10:08 - 00:04:32:06
Rob Napoli
This layer is on top of this. So a lot of things are are derivative or it's like, hey, this is doing really well. This technology, let me build something similar, right? So you can, you know, the first mover advantage versus second movement advantage. The difference that really helps a company grow in scale is do you understand and who you're selling to and why.
00:04:32:16 - 00:04:51:21
Rob Napoli
And you have the right marketing to that segment and regardless of product or service, if you don't have the right message and the right value to the customer, you can have the best product in the world. And it's not going to sell. A lot of companies, a lot of founders take so much time trying to make a product or service perfect.
00:04:51:21 - 00:05:15:14
Rob Napoli
They miss out on the market. And so you cannot, if you wait for your product, is perfect to start selling and marketing, you're missing out. You're too late. Yeah. And what is very important to understand and to make sure that, you know, that you have a segment, you understand those culture aspects and you market to it and then you let the product of up itself within that frame.
00:05:15:16 - 00:05:26:22
Rob Napoli
You have to have it mostly done right. But to that point, don't take that time to just focus only on the product and service and really be able to sell it and understand why you're selling and what pain you're solving.
00:05:27:13 - 00:05:47:13
Matt Sawyer
Yeah, definitely. The last point you made in terms of what painting you solving, because every product, every it needs to solve a problem. It needs to whether it's just, you know, I love to have a refreshing drink after my workout or whatever it is. It's solving a problem and sort of understanding like what is their problem?
00:05:47:13 - 00:05:57:06
Matt Sawyer
And best is what well, what is the one that solves that problem the best? And so that's where you need to think about while defining what best means.
00:05:57:13 - 00:06:36:00
Rob Napoli
Absolutely. And so this is something that I also I recommend this book all the time, and it's a book called Steal Like an Artist based Nansen. And we are so especially, I would say more so Europeans. But I say globally I see this happening is we're so caught up in that we need to create this this uniqueness that we don't look at the market and look at the playbooks that come before and say, like, okay, here's what our competitors that have first mover advantage, the lead market share is doing really well.
00:06:36:00 - 00:07:04:09
Rob Napoli
And here's what they're not. Here's what works and what doesn't like go to the market, take what's going well, replicate that in your own brand image, brand tone, all these things, and see what doesn't work well and learn from those mistakes. Right. I'm actually working with a company that's doing something really cool. And one of the questions I got is how are you going to compete in a market that has a company that developed this market four and a half years ago?
00:07:04:17 - 00:07:23:07
Rob Napoli
And it's very cluttered with other things, but very low on tech. And I said, we know that we're we're a good fit because we're going to take we've taken their playbook and we've adapted it. I've also worked in this industry before in a wearable device that helps scale a company globally. So I know that playbook, but we're going to take that.
00:07:23:07 - 00:07:38:22
Rob Napoli
We've already done these things to know what our price point is and what our consumers are willing to spend and not willing to spend. So we have it all set up and we have to develop it from scratch. Right. We looked at what the market told us. We looked at what other companies did, and we replicated part of that playbook.
00:07:39:14 - 00:08:06:22
Rob Napoli
We iterate on the playbook on where we thought we could be different, and it really found our own voice and tone so that we could take it to the market and hopefully we'll do that in 2023. But like when that when the VC asked that question and I heard the answer like amazing. Right? And it just comes back to culturally understanding what the market already is paying for because you understand what the market wants and then adapting to marketing it to what the real pain is and how we can solve it better.
00:08:07:10 - 00:08:32:13
Rob Napoli
And that has nothing to do with our product or service. And I think our product is better for 100 different reasons. Right. But I'm able to like really thoughts is B.S. on the fact that those points alone and so I agree with you and I see it happen way too many times people create these cool products and services and like what the product's going to sell itself because it's better than anything on the market and boom, it's like, yo, not, not in this market.
00:08:32:24 - 00:08:42:24
Rob Napoli
It's like it's too competitive, too big and too loud. Just because it's good doesn't mean it's going to sell. And you can't just think that, oh, even capture 1%. You got to work hard to capture 1% of this market.
00:08:43:13 - 00:09:14:07
Matt Sawyer
Yeah. And on top of that, it keeps on changing. So what might have been perfect in two years ago or what people were the expectations, people's expectations keeps on getting higher and higher and higher in terms of wanting better, wanting it more, convenient more. And so the market keeps on changing. So what might have worked two years ago or three years ago, might not work today, which for me makes it really interesting because you really have to get in there and do the homework and talk to people and use creativity.
00:09:14:07 - 00:09:17:17
Matt Sawyer
And that's where sort of the art and science come into this.
00:09:18:06 - 00:09:44:18
Rob Napoli
Yeah, I love it. I mean, marketing is with sales as a business is really both a science and an art and you have to understand that otherwise you're missing the mark. Awesome. Matt, thank you so much for for chopping it up here Matt's book, Make it in America, how international companies and entrepreneurs can successfully enter the market and scale comes out This Fall.
00:09:44:19 - 00:10:08:11
Rob Napoli
November 2022. Preorders are on sale now. I will link his website in the show notes for you to go check it out and make sure you check out his other episode about his book and the impact that will be coming out here in a few weeks. Bear Nation, thank you so much, Matt. Again, thanks for dropping it off.
00:10:08:11 - 00:10:09:07
Rob Napoli
I appreciate you.
00:10:09:23 - 00:10:11:16
Matt Sawyer
Always, always a pleasure.
00:10:12:03 - 00:10:15:01
Rob Napoli
Alright Bear Nation. Stay well and rise up
OUTRO
00:10:16:24 - 00:10:26:13
Rob Napoli
Bear Nation. Thanks for listening to the bare necessities of entrepreneurship. If you enjoyed this episode. Please subscribe and leave us a review.