This episode of #TBNE features the former president of Starbucks Coffee and is the author of "It's Not About The Coffee: Leadership Principles from a Life at Starbucks". His career in business spans decades across consumer-oriented businesses covering a number of industries. He retired from Starbucks Coffee after 21 years where he led both the domestic business, as President of North America, and was the founding President of Starbucks International. During his tenure, he participated in the growth of the company from 28 stores to over 15,000 stores spanning five continents. He served on the Starbucks Board of Directors for 12 years before retiring. Currently, a Trustee for the Sheri and Les Biller Family Foundation and is on the advisory board of Anthos Capital as well as having formerly served on the board for Starbucks, GAP, and the University of Washington Foundation among many others. He is deeply committed to the development and education of our future leaders and has been a longtime advocate of the #ServantLeadership Model Don't forget to subscribe and leave a review.
This episode of #TBNE features the former president of Starbucks Coffee and is the author of "It's Not About The Coffee: Leadership Principles from a Life at Starbucks".
His career in business spans decades across consumer-oriented businesses covering a number of industries. He retired from Starbucks Coffee after 21 years where he led both the domestic business, as President of North America, and was the founding President of Starbucks International. During his tenure, he participated in the growth of the company from 28 stores to over 15,000 stores spanning five continents. He served on the Starbucks Board of Directors for 12 years before retiring.
Currently, a Trustee for the Sheri and Les Biller Family Foundation and is on the advisory board of Anthos Capital as well as having formerly served on the board for Starbucks, GAP, and the University of Washington Foundation among many others. He is deeply committed to the development and education of our future leaders and has been a longtime advocate of the #ServantLeadership Model Don't forget to subscribe and leave a review.
Connect with Howard Behar:
Connect with Rob:
Show Produced by: Niranjan Deshpande (Nick), Broken Frames Studio, www.brokenframesstudio.com
Creative Director: Maxim Sokolov, www.maximsokolov.com
Special offer for #BearNation listeners who are interested in trying Brilliantly Warm (https://www.brilliantly.co/), use this 10% off discount code WELCOME10.
We have teamed up with Phin, a social impact company, to give back for each episode to the communities that we serve. To learn more or get involved with Phin for your company, visit: https://www.phinforgood.com/
00:00:07:08 - 00:00:29:05
Howard Behar
How we doing, Bear Nation? I'm your host, Rob Napoli. And we are back again for another episode of the Bare Necessities podcast. And today, today's really fun wine. We have a really amazing guest, Howard Baker, who is was the president of Starbucks for, oh, I don't know, a couple of decades. He wrote the book. It's more about coffee, the magic cup.
00:00:29:15 - 00:00:42:05
Rob Napoli
And he's done a lot of work as a social impact conscious person. And I'm really excited to chat with you about building culture. So Howard, thank you for joining the show today, my friend.
00:00:42:06 - 00:00:43:16
Howard Behar
Rob. Thanks for having me.
00:00:44:04 - 00:00:51:03
Rob Napoli
Absolutely. And I know you're out on the West Coast. I'm out on the East Coast. Did you get up and do a little fishing this morning or night and.
00:00:51:12 - 00:00:58:18
Howard Behar
This one this morning? But it is a beautiful day. I happened to be down in Seattle this morning. It was absolutely the weather's just been incredible.
00:00:59:20 - 00:01:17:24
Rob Napoli
I love it. Guess it's the best time of the year. We're recording this in October as we head into the fall. It's my favorite season, right? Like October and November. That's my favorite. Also, I'm big guy, so if I don't have to walk outside and sweat every day in New York City on my way, I'm jealous because you get to be in nature.
00:01:17:24 - 00:01:44:07
Rob Napoli
And I. I love getting out to hike, so I'm excited to have you out. And, you know, we got connected through a friend of ours. Diane and Amir only sat down and chatted. I was giddy and over the moon as when I was doing a master's degree we had to do. We did a case study on Starbucks, but it wasn't just the normal case study that you think of Howard Schultz and his experience building the company.
00:01:44:07 - 00:02:01:21
Rob Napoli
We looked at it from a lens of building culture, and that's something that you had a big impact in with the servant leadership. So tell me, just quickly had a high level what was when you look back at Starbucks as the president of Starbucks, what do you think the biggest impact you made was there?
00:02:01:23 - 00:02:11:10
Howard Behar
Well, I think it was servant leadership without a question. And the idea that we weren't and the and the coffee business serving people, but we were in the people business serving coffee.
00:02:11:24 - 00:02:20:12
Rob Napoli
And how did that mindset and how was that that that shift in mindset? Are that philosophy born? Was that a day one thing? Was that moment time?
00:02:20:12 - 00:02:41:05
Howard Behar
Well, it was. I mean, I saw it early on because I was a people guy and and I just looked and said, if there was ever a business that is about people, it's the coffee business. Because, you know, like right now I'm having a cup of coffee as I'm talking to you. I go sit in a store, have a cup of coffee with a conversation, reading a newspaper.
00:02:41:05 - 00:03:00:12
Howard Behar
It's always about people. And coffee is kind of the grease of life, I think of it at least that way. So, you know, but at the early days of all entrepreneurial organizations, I think they're in that whatever the business they're selling, you know, whatever service or product or they think that's their business. But the minute they hire one person, they're no longer in that business.
00:03:00:12 - 00:03:15:06
Howard Behar
Now they're in the paper business. And so I kept driving that and I was relentless about it and I just believe in it. And I believe that all organizations are about people. I mean, you know, any time you think they're not think again.
00:03:16:02 - 00:03:45:07
Rob Napoli
I love that. And to that point, right, the minute you start hiring your first person, it's about people. But I also think the minute you start a business, even if you're a solo entrepreneur, it's about people and building a culture. Right. And I get asked all the time because if you or I were talking pretty show, I do a lot of training on how to attract and retain Cincy and millennial talent, and I get asked by entrepreneurs and companies later, it's like, Oh, we need to build culture.
00:03:45:07 - 00:04:10:06
Rob Napoli
And it's like, What do you need? You need to build. You build culture from day one. So having this servant leadership background and building that it now, what would you kind of advise a new owner or business owner or a new entrepreneur and just say, hey, you're starting culture from day one. How do they think about that? What is that the Howard the hire blueprint, thinking about building culture long term?
00:04:10:15 - 00:04:30:16
Howard Behar
Well, first of all, you need to know who you are because you can't fake it. Culture is a reflection of the leaders of the organization in one way or another, and not what they say, but rather what they do. And you have. So you have to be conscious of that all the time. What is it you want? What what kind of place do you want your people to work in?
00:04:30:16 - 00:04:46:10
Howard Behar
What? What kind of place do you want to work in? What kind of communications do you want to have with each other? What is it a place of kindness and love or is it a it is this performance driven culture where everybody's pounding on each other, you know, and I'm not here to tell you what's right or wrong.
00:04:46:10 - 00:05:07:08
Howard Behar
I know what I like and what works for me and what I've tried to do. But but it just to be you need to be aware and thoughtful about it. And I always think that every leader should or should define their 8 to 10 core values is a beginning, and there's 8 to 10 core values should influence the culture in the organization.
00:05:07:08 - 00:05:27:22
Howard Behar
And and then, of course, the organization have it should have its guiding principles are 8 to 10 core values, but they have to overlap. You can't have conflicting ones otherwise. It's not doesn't work. Yeah. So you have to be aware and conscious about it. And you know if that old adage, if you don't know where you're going, any path, I'll get you there.
00:05:28:05 - 00:05:53:12
Howard Behar
Intentional about your culture. Yeah, I have said that to every company, every organization. Families have cultures, businesses have cultures, nonprofits have cultures, schools have cultures. You know, I always say I have a culture of one. Yeah, yeah. And that my own culture, you know, so to speak, and we all have it and and we all live it. The question is, is the one we want to do?
00:05:53:18 - 00:06:12:00
Rob Napoli
Absolutely. And I think the important piece of that is one, you have to have your own kind of set of core beliefs and values. Right. And those are kind of your personal brand. And then your professional brand should be an evolution of that. And and there's that overlap, as you were saying. And it's really important to lay these out.
00:06:12:00 - 00:06:21:16
Rob Napoli
And I know that you you have a really cool thing that you do. It's called Howard at 50 Words, which lays that out. Walk us through how you got it to 50 words. I don't know if I could do it 50 words about me.
00:06:22:24 - 00:06:43:11
Howard Behar
It's you have it takes a lot of work. Everybody thinks it's easy. It's not. So I started with with defining what my core values were. So you can go online, you can get a list of 300 words that represent human values. And it's easy to get it to 50. And there's probably 50 or 100 words that some way or another describe a little bit of you in some way.
00:06:43:17 - 00:07:00:00
Howard Behar
But getting it down to the real core ones, the 8 to 10, those are really important. And then what what those eight core 8 to 10 core values mean to how do they inform the actions and the decisions you make in your life. So you have to define them because otherwise core values like my first core values, honesty.
00:07:00:03 - 00:07:18:06
Howard Behar
It's just a word. Yeah. And so it turns into action. What does it mean to me? What does honesty me? Does that mean I never lie about anything? Does it mean I won't tell a white lie to somebody? What? What does it mean to me? And then. And then having a personal mission statement, I think it's critical or a big, you know, like Jim Collins calls it.
00:07:18:06 - 00:07:37:14
Howard Behar
Yeah. Something that drives you, you know, it gets you up in the morning and and you look at that and you say, that's me. That's who I want to be. Yeah. It's a never it's never ending journey. You know, my mission statement, personal mission statement is every day I want to nurture and inspire the human spirit, beginning with myself first and then for others.
00:07:38:01 - 00:07:58:04
Howard Behar
And reason why I say self first is because it's not selfish. It's it's that I've come to understand after living as long as I have if you're not okay with you, very difficult to help anybody else. And I have a paragraph that or words that describe I want to live every day I call my six PS. And so those 50 words really are how I live my life.
00:07:59:07 - 00:08:07:01
Howard Behar
Now I have my perfect no, I do everything every day. No. Yeah, you know that. But they are my guide.
00:08:07:08 - 00:08:29:06
Rob Napoli
Absolutely. And I love that because like for me, one of my kind of core values has always been be curious, right? Because I'm curious. I ask questions and I ask questions. I'm authentic and I'm authentic. I can be intentional about where I want to go from there. And so I love the idea of curiosity. And when my favorite quotes as Walt Disney is, we keep moving forward, opening new doors and doing new things because we're curious.
00:08:29:06 - 00:08:48:24
Rob Napoli
Because we're curious. Curiosity leads us down new paths, and that's something that always stuck with me and from from every day. So I love that we have that. I think that's really important for leaders because it's really easy to talk like a leader. It's really easy if you look up leadership and management philosophies and you'll get 100 books written by people.
00:08:49:07 - 00:08:50:02
Howard Behar
All right. But I think.
00:08:50:02 - 00:09:12:04
Rob Napoli
What's different is, you know, when you walk your talk and that's something you talk about. And we talked about preshow and I want to kind of get into this thing about Starbucks. And we talked about, you know, you wrote a book about this. It's more than just about the coffee and what people focus. And I remember I graduated college in 2000, 9010, right?
00:09:12:04 - 00:09:30:20
Rob Napoli
Right after the financial collapse. I came out when I was in college, I played college football. I had long hair, earrings. I was a Catholic schoolboy, so I had to be clean. So when I went to college, I got tattoo, I got all those things. And then I got out in the working world again and I was like, Oh, they got to be clean and kind of get cleaned up.
00:09:30:20 - 00:09:52:03
Rob Napoli
And so I did. I had the short hair, that strip, and I kept all the tattoos under the sleeves. Now I'm starting to build out because I feel like I'm everything is tiger. I'm back out. But I remember that one of the few places that I would walk into and I was like, Man, this makes me feel good because everyone there was their own person that was at Starbucks, everyone behind the counter own their own look.
00:09:52:09 - 00:10:09:20
Rob Napoli
They had so much flair. Everyone was like, Was that a day one build? Like, how did that happen? Were you encouraged? Ever want to be them in the store? Because I think that makes a big difference to the experience of people that in the early days or early days, back in the early 2000 and late nineties at Starbucks.
00:10:10:06 - 00:10:27:20
Howard Behar
Well, I'd like to tell you, we are perfect at that. I think that what we set out to do is have texture. That's the word I always like to use is not to be slick. And in that meant that people had to be who they were and wanted. We wanted our people to create real relationships with those human beings.
00:10:27:20 - 00:10:47:11
Howard Behar
They're a servant, not just, you know, would you like a large herd of fries with that today? You know, yeah. But rather a real conversation. And so that's what we try to drive now. You know, in the early days, you know, we had the airing issues. We had, I think it was women can wear rings, men can men, how many earrings can you wear?
00:10:47:11 - 00:11:10:19
Howard Behar
And then finally you just kind of let it go and you realize that the culture of the country is moving this way. But we, you know, we restricted tattoos. We couldn't show the tattoos. We didn't want nose rings or our lip rings, you know, and things like that. Or we didn't want was whatever you wanted to be. We didn't want that to get in the way of your conversation.
00:11:11:01 - 00:11:17:10
Howard Behar
We didn't want somebody to come in and look at your nose ring and say, I think that's all they thought about was a nose ring.
00:11:17:15 - 00:11:17:24
Rob Napoli
Yeah.
00:11:18:06 - 00:11:39:06
Howard Behar
Right. And made some people uncomfortable. And that today is where all that's changed a lot. You know, that now they show their tattoos. They you know, it's just that that door has long since opened, you know, when you kind of let it go and within reason, you know, within some reason, you know, you need to be clean, you know, all those kind of things.
00:11:39:06 - 00:11:51:18
Howard Behar
But other than that, yeah. No, I mean, I wouldn't hire anybody that had full facial tattoos, you know? Yeah. Doesn't fit our business. It's not that there's anything wrong with those people. It's just that it becomes about them then.
00:11:51:24 - 00:12:07:16
Rob Napoli
Yeah, it makes sense. And I think, you know, and I'm glad you kind of shared that the whole I wish you were perfect that beginning. But it was a it was an evolution. Right. And the more that you realized that you let people be themselves, they bring their true character. And their true character is what you hired them for anyways.
00:12:07:17 - 00:12:08:12
Howard Behar
Yeah. Yeah.
00:12:08:16 - 00:12:22:07
Rob Napoli
That always shows up and shows out what people are most comfortable in their own skin. And so if you allow that to the workers, the workers that could provide better service in any industry and things that you do. And obviously there's there's a there's a limit to that, right? So everything with it.
00:12:22:14 - 00:12:39:12
Howard Behar
I mean, there's some there's some, you know, I don't know where that limit is. I don't know. I think it it just keeps kind of moving. That limit just keeps moving. I still don't understand. I say God gave us these beautiful bodies and then we want to cover them up in our stuff. But it's the nature of the beast today.
00:12:39:12 - 00:12:43:03
Howard Behar
People want to do that. That's thousands of years old.
00:12:44:20 - 00:13:13:12
Rob Napoli
So, you know, you talk about a core philosophy of yours is is honesty. And yeah, you know, there is obviously a lot of things in your career that you've seen. What was one of the times that let me walk us through a through an experience, whether it was a high point or a low point or a time of crisis where you had to be honest, even at the detriment to yourself and you had to kind of look in the mirror and be like, I need to stick to who Howard is and make this decision.
00:13:13:12 - 00:13:16:22
Rob Napoli
Do you have a few of those moments that are like in the top of mind?
00:13:17:03 - 00:13:38:21
Howard Behar
Yeah, well, I've got one that really, really informed that honesty piece and I was just had, you know, you're talking to a guy that barely got out of high school. I had a couple of years of community college and I finally got the opportunity to be president of a public company. And and I'm in the job three months and I realize that we're a little bit in trouble and I got to do something.
00:13:39:08 - 00:14:03:03
Howard Behar
So we had to figure out, you know, how, where we were going to cut back. We were going to have to have some layoffs. And so I got the team together and we all created a plan and which departments we're going to have to layoff people. Which ones weren't that the whole nine yards. And my administrative assistant typed it out and the head of human resource took the plan, went to the copier and copied it, made a copy for everybody.
00:14:03:03 - 00:14:05:18
Howard Behar
But she left the original and copier.
00:14:06:00 - 00:14:06:23
Rob Napoli
Oh, now.
00:14:07:23 - 00:14:28:17
Howard Behar
This is on a Friday. By 8:00 Friday night, the phone is ringing off the hook. Somebody found it and the drums beat throughout the company. And so and I, you know, I didn't know what to do. I thought, oh, man. So I got my team together again on Saturday morning. I said, Here is what happened. What do you think we should do?
00:14:28:17 - 00:14:47:21
Howard Behar
And I went around the room, asked everybody their opinion and the majority opinion was just and I just say, it's just thought since we're not, you know, we may or may not do we don't know what we're going to do or anything like that, but we knew we were going to do it. All right. So my administrative assistant, her name is Lori Christmas, she just looked at me and tapped me on the shoulder.
00:14:47:21 - 00:15:08:20
Howard Behar
She said, Howard, only the truth sounds like the truth. I The truth sounds like the truth. And I said, Lori, right. So I called them on Monday morning and I laid out, here's what's happening. I was sorry that they had to find out, you know, on Friday night on a copy and I'm on the copy machine. But and one person stood up, said, thank you for telling us the truth.
00:15:09:09 - 00:15:25:13
Howard Behar
You know, I may be one of the ones that gets laid off, but I'll support you in this process. And one by one, everybody stood up. And it was such a valuable lesson to me. When you share the truth with your people, though, they may be uncomfortable, they may be hurt, they may be sad, all those things, but they'll help.
00:15:26:01 - 00:15:27:02
Howard Behar
Yeah, for the most part.
00:15:27:09 - 00:15:28:16
Rob Napoli
I love what they.
00:15:28:16 - 00:15:33:03
Howard Behar
Created as valued human beings and a response to being told the truth.
00:15:33:24 - 00:15:55:14
Rob Napoli
They do and. And I love that line. Only the truth sounds like the truth. And, you know, we are kind of talking preshow about this, this, you know, retaining Gen Z and millennial talent. And one of the things that I talk a lot about is in the way the world has changed and people working is they want to feel heard and they want to feel seen.
00:15:55:14 - 00:16:09:12
Rob Napoli
And it doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to use every idea. It doesn't mean that you're going to put them on their projects, but you're honest them and say, hey, here's what I need you for. Here's why I would love your opinion. And you make them feel heard and seen. And you're just honest with humans that that's a big difference.
00:16:09:12 - 00:16:18:12
Rob Napoli
And it makes a big difference in keeping your employees engaged, keeping your employees happy, and keeping your employees feel like you're up there a part of something bigger than themselves, which is what we're looking for.
00:16:18:18 - 00:16:37:11
Howard Behar
Yeah, exactly. That's, you know, people want to have meaning in their lives. Yes. You know, whatever it is, it always doesn't always come from their work. Sometimes it comes from other things and their work is just a means to an end. But. But, but you spent a lot of time at work and there should be some kind of meaning to it that's bigger than you.
00:16:37:17 - 00:16:59:10
Howard Behar
You know, I never thought that way. Or I should tell our viewers that there are social workers and they had 10 seconds to determine where that person was in front of them. They just want a hot cup of coffee or they want some conversation. And you had to respond in the way they wanted to be responded to. And that's not easy to do to be aware of, because so often we're into ourselves, right?
00:16:59:10 - 00:17:21:12
Howard Behar
Or we're, you know, we come to work. And with all we can think about is that argument we just had with our significant other or the traffic ticket we got or or we're going to see the Rolling Stones tonight, you know. Yeah. Whatever it is. And we're kind of and ourselves instead of any of those people. Yeah. We all want other people to be us, right.
00:17:21:12 - 00:17:21:24
Rob Napoli
Yeah.
00:17:22:02 - 00:17:27:18
Howard Behar
Which we don't recognize. It's tit for tat. Yeah. That's how it goes. If you're into somebody else, they're going to be into you.
00:17:27:19 - 00:17:53:04
Rob Napoli
Absolutely. That's something that I feel, you know, I was I worked in food service my whole life in high school and in college. And, you know, I would always know when somebody wanted to talk, when they didn't want to talk. And it's really it's a skill that takes a long time to learn. But if you get it right, it's quite nice because sometimes I go to a bar and I sort of be left alone and, you know, watch TV.
00:17:53:04 - 00:17:56:19
Rob Napoli
It's How do I want to go? And I go there because I want to have a two way conversation with them.
00:17:56:20 - 00:18:21:00
Howard Behar
I want to talk to the bartender. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah and yeah. People at you you can recognize that you get so that you those little antenna that you can't see that are in your head. If you tune in to others, you'll, you'll get there. I mean, if anybody in your audience is married or has a significant other that they live with, you can come home at night and your significant other doesn't have to say a word and you know exactly where they are.
00:18:22:04 - 00:18:32:04
Howard Behar
That what you did that has come off, you know what you did that made them happy, you know, you know, they don't have to say a word. You can just see it in our eyes. You can feel the energy.
00:18:32:06 - 00:19:04:22
Rob Napoli
Yeah, I would definitely agree with that statement. I love it. You know, I want to get back to this. One of the things that you mentioned, you know, the biggest impact is bringing your servant leadership to Starbucks. And, you know, that takes on a lot of shapes and forms. And we talk a lot about walking your talk. And one thing that I always notice is that leadership I mention this, there's a lot of books, there's a lot of thought leaders to talking about this.
00:19:04:22 - 00:19:25:05
Rob Napoli
And, you know, the here's the playbook on doing this. There is this and it all sounds fine and good until shit hits the fan, right? So when you're a leader and you're talking about servant leadership and it's about honesty, you share that story about the layoffs when things start going south and it's hard, that's when the real leaders arise.
00:19:25:05 - 00:19:39:03
Rob Napoli
And how do how does how have you taken lessons you've learned and have an internal conversation to then have that external conversation, to make those tough decisions and to lead and manage in a time when things aren't going well?
00:19:39:18 - 00:19:58:08
Howard Behar
I think it goes back to authenticity and honesty. You know, you have to be authentic. You have to be vulnerable. You can't hide stuff if you're under stress and you've got high anxiety because something's going on in the organization. It needs to think you can trust your people to share it with them. I mean, your goal is not to scare the hell out of them.
00:19:58:16 - 00:20:17:10
Howard Behar
The goal is to have them help you solve the problem. You know, if I had a problem, I never thought I had to have the solutions. I think leaders get caught up in that. They think that that's what they're paid for. They're not paid for having solutions. They're paid for helping their teams come up with the solutions. Right.
00:20:18:01 - 00:20:37:04
Howard Behar
I was the alchemist. You know, I thought you get you get disparate ideas from your team about what we should do. And then together you put it together. And that's that's the key. I think that we get caught up and that's like getting caught up and being a parent. You think you have to know everything you know.
00:20:37:23 - 00:20:57:12
Rob Napoli
Where do you think that came from though? Like, I guess I agree as a leader, I think they have to know everything. You have to always be right in that if you're vulnerable as a leader, that's a sign of weakness. But that's not true. Where do we think that that mentality came from and why? How do we go back away from that and go back to true servant leadership?
00:20:57:12 - 00:21:22:19
Howard Behar
Well, I you know, I think it's nature of the beast right away. You know, like Ray Kroc used to say, turn your fear into faith. Unfortunately, most people can't turn their fear into faith. They turn their fear into anxiety. And and that's what happens. And people when they get anxious, right, they you know, they look at some people look to blame others.
00:21:23:03 - 00:21:46:18
Howard Behar
Yeah. Some people don't want anybody to know that they're sweating. And I had a I had a guy that was a chair of the board of a company that I worked at. And he basically said, Don't let anybody see your emotions. That was impossible for me. Yeah. I mean, that was like I mean, everybody knew how I was feeling all the time, you know, before I did sometimes, you know.
00:21:46:21 - 00:22:06:08
Howard Behar
And so I think it's just nature of the beast. It's that fear, fear factor of feeling like you're weak, like you should know, but you don't. And the ability to to to acknowledge your strengths, acknowledge your weaknesses, acknowledge that you're not a perfect person.
00:22:06:15 - 00:22:32:15
Rob Napoli
Yeah. So when you think about some of this, right. So as a leader, I think it's really important to bring in people that do what you can't. You don't need to know everything. You need to bring in the right people. You talk about you being an alchemist. So as you're building, you know, Starbucks and some of the other companies that you worked for and been on the boards of these companies, how have you kind of put that into the hiring process?
00:22:33:04 - 00:22:49:09
Rob Napoli
So think about it. You know, the reason why I'm asking is we have a lot of founders and entrepreneurs out there that always come to me and they're looking to hire like a CTO or co-founder. I give equity and they jump into these. They don't really do a great job like having a conversation. So when you you're hiring for leaders.
00:22:49:20 - 00:23:02:22
Rob Napoli
Starbucks thinking about that servant leadership hat, how did you go about evaluating that talent and making sure you are bringing in or bringing up people internally that live by those values? What was the recruitment process like?
00:23:03:06 - 00:23:22:10
Howard Behar
Well, you know, I didn't recruit so much. I mean, I did recruit for skills. Sometimes it depends on what the job was. Something if I knew about if I if I was interviewing somebody to be an accounting department of V.P., of accounting, I didn't I'm not an accountant. So I let other people interview for skills. I interviewed for who they were as a human being.
00:23:22:10 - 00:23:40:08
Howard Behar
I interviewed for values because at the end of the day, if you don't, if that counts first, you can have the best skills in accounting. But if you're an asshole, you don't belong with us. Yeah, that you know. And so I focused on that. I would dove in. There were no yes or no answers on the questions I asked.
00:23:40:15 - 00:23:57:19
Howard Behar
I would ask questions like, What are your parents like about you? What don't they like about you if you have a brother or sister? What? What did they like about you? What they like about you? What's what was the biggest human challenge you ever have? How did it get solved? One was at time that you wouldn't couldn't solve our relationship challenge.
00:23:58:17 - 00:24:22:11
Howard Behar
You know. And so I kept digging for that kind of stuff. I wanted dialog. It wasn't so much the answer. I wanted to know if they could be truthful, if they could be authentic, and if they could be vulnerable. I love and I was looking for that. And so you hired a values first? Yeah. Yeah, that is number one.
00:24:22:17 - 00:24:35:22
Howard Behar
I don't care. The skill sets that could be out of this world, right? Mm hmm. You could hit 60 home runs, you know, or whatever the number is that. I guess you got to hit 63 today. Yeah.
00:24:36:00 - 00:24:39:06
Rob Napoli
Yeah, 74 if you want to beat bonds.
00:24:39:13 - 00:24:52:21
Howard Behar
If you want to raise Blunt. But I don't count him. Okay. All right. So, you know, you have to. But at the end of the day, if you can't be a team player, then we don't need you.
00:24:53:10 - 00:25:13:08
Rob Napoli
Yeah, I love that you go back to that. Can they be authentic? Can they be truthful to can they be vulnerable? And I think that's really that's a really big piece for me. One of my other core values is authenticity. And I'm authentic to a fault that times where not you. I was sitting an email out and I was to a lot of people and I forgot somebody.
00:25:13:21 - 00:25:31:02
Rob Napoli
And when I write and so I respond and I see that for the email on it said, Hey, I really apologize. Somehow I missed putting you on this thread. I wanted to make sure that you had this information on the actual if you had an all feature communications moving forward and I had some of the other people like, Oh, that's weird that you would do that way.
00:25:32:01 - 00:25:53:01
Rob Napoli
You should just like put it on. So they thought they would see it in like not call that out. And I was like, I know that, but I want to make them feel special by being authentic and saying, Hey, I'm really sorry you're going to be looped back in. So now you're kind of tied into everybody. Yeah. And that was kind of a really big moment for me of just, you know, sometimes being authentic to a fault.
00:25:53:01 - 00:25:56:00
Rob Napoli
But I'd rather take that any day right?
00:25:56:00 - 00:26:16:24
Howard Behar
I don't think you either are right. You're right. There's not halfway. It's not. Well, sometimes I am and sometimes I'm not. Sometimes I tell a lie. Sometimes I don't. People have to be able to pan. You are who you are. Yeah. And and in all situations, you know, and that's it's hard. It's not easy. Look, it's not easy.
00:26:16:24 - 00:26:24:12
Howard Behar
We all have our fears. We all have our anxieties. And the key is learning to manage that stuff as best as you can.
00:26:24:17 - 00:26:47:14
Rob Napoli
Absolutely. And you know, for me, in that example I used, the key learning lesson was, hey, sometimes I move. And I've been in New York for seven years and I move like a New Yorker sometimes I do things too fast. I have ADHD and OCD. Sometimes I just move too fast around. Good. Yeah. It's like, Rob, take a second to sit back, sit with and just take a just, you know, let it breathe, take a step away and then come back.
00:26:47:23 - 00:27:07:08
Rob Napoli
If you just did that, you probably wouldn't have missed that email. You would have noticed that it would never have been an issue. But, you know, there's always there's that are who you are and there's always the learning lesson and there's always that balance of, hey, this is who you are. That's amazing. Here's where you can learn. Here's how you grow from it and here's how you move forward and continue to be the best version of yourself.
00:27:08:03 - 00:27:21:22
Rob Napoli
And I think that's, you know, a lot of us always pass the blame somewhere. We are afraid to look at our look in the mirror. And I think that the key lesson here is a good leader and servant leadership. You got to look in the mirror first. If you can't be truthful with yourself, I can be truthful with other people.
00:27:21:22 - 00:27:37:22
Howard Behar
I mean, we know when we have gone, stepped over the bounds. You know, we've got out of bounds. We don't like to acknowledge it. But but you need to be able to do it. You need to be able to go home at night and feel uncomfortable. And then you got to clean up your mess.
00:27:38:07 - 00:27:40:21
Rob Napoli
Yes.
00:27:40:21 - 00:27:48:02
Howard Behar
That's the most important thing you got to honor and you got to apologize and you got to and you know, that's okay. You know.
00:27:49:03 - 00:28:06:16
Rob Napoli
That's awesome. Howard, we cover a lot of ground here and I really appreciated you kind of sharing your insights and some great insights and questions. Anything that you're kind of doing or working on that you want to give a shout out to or how to? How do my listeners find you are learn?
00:28:06:20 - 00:28:32:03
Howard Behar
Well, I always give never give my phone number and my email address. So my phone number is 2069727776 and my email address is H b, that's my initials at Howard B hardcore. And you know, I'll get back to anybody that reaches out to me out of whatever the subject is, that's up to them, you know. Yeah, but it takes me a while sometimes.
00:28:32:03 - 00:28:40:07
Howard Behar
But yeah, but you know, I, my, you know, mission in life is generations by the human spirit. So if I can help anybody, I want to do that.
00:28:40:24 - 00:28:56:10
Rob Napoli
Oh, I love that. And I love that mission. And I hope you keep spreading that mission. And I appreciate you taking the time to sit down with me and chop it up a little bit. I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day and thank you so much for being a part of their nation and sharing your experience with us.
00:28:56:22 - 00:28:57:24
Howard Behar
Thanks, Rob. I appreciate.
00:28:57:24 - 00:29:14:01
Rob Napoli
It. Absolutely. And Bear Nation, please. You know, if you if you if you feel compelled to reach out to Howard, do so. He he's an amazing person. I know you won't regret it. And until next time, Bear Nation stay well and rise up in.
00:29:16:10 - 00:29:25:23
Rob Napoli
Bear Nation. Thanks for listening to the bare necessities of entrepreneurship. We enjoyed this episode. Please subscribe and leave us a review.