In this episode of #TBNE Rob talks with former professional dancer turned entrepreneur, Matteo Grassi, Co-Founder of Popup, as they are reinventing e-commerce. We get into his journey, purpose, and passions as he continues to build multiple businesses. Check out the full episode now! Don't forget to subscribe and leave a review.
In this episode of #TBNE Rob talks with former professional dancer turned entrepreneur, Matteo Grassi, Co-Founder of Popup, as they are reinventing e-commerce.
We get into his journey, purpose, and passions as he continues to build multiple businesses.
Check out the full episode now!
Don't forget to subscribe and leave a review.
Connect with Matteo Grassi:
Connect with Rob:
Show Produced by: Niranjan Deshpande (Nick), Broken Frames Studio, www.brokenframesstudio.com
Creative Director: Maxim Sokolov, www.maximsokolov.com
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Special offer for #BearNation listeners interested in trying Brilliantly Warm (https://www.brilliantly.co/), use this 10% off discount code WELCOME10.
The 8 Biggest Mistakes People Make When Choosing a Coach (and how to avoid them!) use this link to get your FREE download: https://www.thaxa.com/p/the-bear-necessities-of-entrepreneurship
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EP 97_Matteo Grassi_Transcript
00:00:07:11 - 00:00:36:07
Rob Napoli
Bear nation. How are we doing? As your host, Rob Napoli, we are back for another episode of The Bare Necessities podcast. And today I have on the show the co-founder of Pop Up, which is a commerce platform that is reinventing the online store. Matteo Grassi. Matteo went from acting and dancing professionally here in New York City to having three failed businesses to doing 16 million in revenue to raising three and a half million was just a pitch to pitch deck.
00:00:36:18 - 00:00:54:24
Rob Napoli
And he's very passionate about making an impact with business and making an impact through business. And in fact, let's talk about one of his businesses today. But he's also got his hands in a couple other businesses as well, because he is the kind of guy that I don't think you like to sit still. Do you Matteo?
00:00:55:09 - 00:01:13:22
Matteo Grassi
No, I don't like to sit still. And I think is is a curse. It's a blessing and a curse at the same time. And I think this came through my life. Everyone would say you're doing too much. And I think I'm full. I'm 40 now. I find myself probably 30 years later after I heard this in my life when I was ten.
00:01:14:13 - 00:01:16:09
Matteo Grassi
Yeah, I'm still there. So I haven't changed.
00:01:17:15 - 00:01:54:03
Rob Napoli
I mean, I've been told that a lot, too. And while I appreciate it and I love it sometimes, you know, I. I got too much. You know, it's a dream thing, but, you know, it's. I'm excited to have you on because we met through a number of different people, one being my good friend and my mindshifting coach who actually introduced me recently to your wife, Katya, who for those that have not listened already, or if you are a listener, but you haven't checked out the episode of Kaya Samatoi, do it. She's amazing, talks about two businesses she's running and doing things with purpose.
00:01:54:03 - 00:02:01:24
Rob Napoli
But Matteo, since you're Italian, the first question I'm asking you is what's your favorite coffee macchiato?
00:02:01:24 - 00:02:02:10
Matteo Grassi
Actually.
00:02:02:22 - 00:02:03:06
Rob Napoli
Yeah.
00:02:03:15 - 00:02:10:06
Matteo Grassi
Okay. That's it's, you know, last time I was in Italy, there is this new thing called my Cotonou. What are you there? When the macciatoni was a thing?
00:02:10:06 - 00:02:11:03
Rob Napoli
No, I wasn’t
00:02:11:10 - 00:02:18:05
Matteo Grassi
You know, it's like is the thing is is, is the real thing. It's like it's a middle between a cappuccino mercato. It's like a big budget.
00:02:18:15 - 00:02:21:18
Rob Napoli
And has a weird I mean, I'm down for it. I love want.
00:02:21:20 - 00:02:26:19
Matteo Grassi
Do to little more milk, but not as much as a cappuccino.
00:02:27:03 - 00:02:48:00
Rob Napoli
Well, you know, it's funny. I remember the first time that I tried to order like a cappuccino after lunch and somebody was like, You don't. You don't have milk after breakfast. I totally done it. Just like. So I grew up for dinner. You had steak, potatoes and milk. I had a I had to educate a lot of Italians on what a midwesterner looks like.
00:02:48:21 - 00:02:55:15
Rob Napoli
You know, when you have a supper with, like, a steak, mashed potatoes, corn, and you had a glass of chocolate milk.
00:02:56:10 - 00:03:00:21
Matteo Grassi
Have you ever heard a latte? And then they give you a glass of milk that you didn't.
00:03:01:03 - 00:03:02:02
Rob Napoli
Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah.
00:03:02:22 - 00:03:09:21
Matteo Grassi
Everyone that doesn't know Latin Italian means milk. Milk. So when you when you go to Italy and you order the latter, you're going to get a glass of milk.
00:03:09:21 - 00:03:30:24
Rob Napoli
That's it. Yeah. They don't make it like a latte. In the U.S., we're like, Can I get an oat milk latte? Because that's oat milk. Milk? Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. But you know, I'm a big fan of of and it's funny is living in Italy actually just made me like a black coffee drinker because my espresso with a little bit of sugar, I didn't like putting too much at it.
00:03:31:03 - 00:03:39:15
Rob Napoli
And yeah, it really kind of made me. Now I love coffee, usually black and my favorite coffee brand is Lavazza. Yeah, that's actually.
00:03:40:15 - 00:03:59:16
Matteo Grassi
What I, I know I'm going to drill a little bit, but it's I'm amazed. That's why coffee tastes better in Italy. I never I never get it. I mean, the coffee is not Italian, right? The coffee. The rose is Italian. Yeah, but the coffee, we don't grow coffee in Italy. Yeah, but just like I get an espresso anywhere does.
00:03:59:16 - 00:04:03:04
Matteo Grassi
And it's just like when I go back to Italy and I drink espresso, just taste better.
00:04:04:08 - 00:04:04:24
Rob Napoli
I don't know.
00:04:04:24 - 00:04:08:11
Matteo Grassi
I think same machines, same coffee, right?
00:04:09:02 - 00:04:21:06
Rob Napoli
I don't know. I honestly think it has to do with memories and smells. Right. Just like I think that when you go to Italy, Air France, a glass of wine, just say it's better.
00:04:22:02 - 00:04:22:21
Matteo Grassi
Yeah, it's true.
00:04:23:09 - 00:04:43:02
Rob Napoli
When you go out, you know, you can have schnitzel all over the world. When you're in Austria, Germany, you're so immediately ten times better. Yeah, right. So I think I think there's there's maybe like a little bit conscious association, subconscious association. But yes, the best cup of coffee I've ever had in Italy. I like it hands down and I've had really good coffee.
00:04:43:02 - 00:04:55:08
Rob Napoli
But that being said, so, you know, your life has taken an interesting turn, right? So being from Italy, just outside Bologna, right?
00:04:55:17 - 00:04:56:12
Matteo Grassi
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
00:04:56:21 - 00:05:03:08
Rob Napoli
So how did you get into acting and dancing professionally and how did you end up here in New York City?
00:05:03:08 - 00:05:27:12
Matteo Grassi
Actually, in 90. I stopped it when I was eight. My mom is a theater teacher. My dad's a musician, so I didn't. They never pushed me to do this. I grew up in a rough neighborhood, I would say, because, I mean, I lived in New York City. I think that comparing a rough to New York City from Italy, but it wasn't like a like a super safe area.
00:05:27:12 - 00:05:44:10
Matteo Grassi
It was like a residential, not a residential, like council houses. And that stuff. That's how I got into breakdancing. So I started acting when I was eight in school, and I got into breakdancing when I was 12 years old, just because at the time it was always the only thing that we could do to stay out of trouble.
00:05:45:15 - 00:06:12:03
Matteo Grassi
And yeah, just got really, really good, really, really good at it. And that's my career took me into the From Breakdancing to a K-Pop. And then we started to touring around with, with, with the Voice and we went, we represented Italy the Battle of the Year in 1998, and I studied in a university like after that was like 17, 18, went to university.
00:06:12:08 - 00:06:31:21
Matteo Grassi
As soon as I finished uni, I was like, I want to see the world. And I moved to New York. It was the first time literally I took a plane. I've never been anywhere in Italy. That's so crazy. Like thinking about thinking about it, you know, I didn't have a lot of money, so I was working in the summer, I was studying in the winter, and that said about my life was like that.
00:06:31:21 - 00:06:50:22
Matteo Grassi
So I didn't have time or money to travel anywhere, so I didn't see much. But I started meeting a lot of people through dancing. Right? Because when you go to international competition and things like that, you know, it's we went to Germany, but we drove I never took a plane. And. And you started meeting all these people from us, from under in this community.
00:06:50:22 - 00:07:07:17
Matteo Grassi
And I was like, I want I want to see the world. And what is the place where you can see the world in one city? New York City. Yeah, that's the that's I arrived in New York and I got into breakdancing as a as a dancer. And, and for that I started working a little bit as a dancer, was working as a bartender.
00:07:07:17 - 00:07:11:13
Matteo Grassi
So I spent about a year in New York, New York City.
00:07:11:13 - 00:07:36:21
Rob Napoli
You're kind of the whole, you know, Broadway theater and dancing and bartending on that. I see. And that's awesome. So when did you you know, you you know, as I entered you and I talked about when you had three failed businesses kind of starting off to growing 16 million of revenue, you got a nice raise with just a pitchdeck and you've launched charity.
00:07:36:21 - 00:07:57:06
Rob Napoli
So you're dancing, you're living in New York City. So you've been in Australia, you've been you're now in Ireland like you've been all over. When did this which happened of like I'm done with I'm hang up my dancing shoes and I would become an entrepreneur. Was there a moment? Did it just happen? Like, how did you like what you kind of lived?
00:07:57:06 - 00:08:05:07
Rob Napoli
I mean, you were a dancer for such a young age. When did that kind of change ever happened to like my to kind of leave one path and start anew?
00:08:07:02 - 00:08:25:17
Matteo Grassi
I fell in love with discovering the world. So I think New York showed me what the world was in a very, very small space, right from, you know, just just speaking like people don't understand this. Maybe because, you know us, you guys have such a big melting pot. But you lived in Italy, You understand what I'm talking about.
00:08:26:01 - 00:08:43:21
Matteo Grassi
Little Italy is very close country. I never seen a black person with the suits. Right. I never spoke to an Asian person in my life. You know, is you arrive in New York City and you see these melting pots of people from all over the world. You start to experience like foods and and from all over the worlds as well.
00:08:43:21 - 00:09:01:14
Matteo Grassi
And I was like, I want to see the world. I want to see the world. I want to travel. I don't want to be alone on the ones. I just it's you're up to a point of your career that you literally cannot travel, right? If you just want to focus on one thing, you have to say like, if I wanted to be a dancer professionally, I had to stay there, train every day.
00:09:02:03 - 00:09:19:23
Matteo Grassi
No messing, no traveling, just doing that. And I was like, No, I want to see the world. And this is where I start traveling. So for me, entrepreneurship was I fell in love with the travel. I allowed this nomadic lifestyle. I fell in love with the fact that I could live anywhere in the world. But remote work wasn't a thing didn't exist.
00:09:19:23 - 00:09:44:01
Matteo Grassi
I mean, I never heard about, like, people working remotely, right? We're talking about 2002. 2003, right? That's that's it. Arrived in Australia in 2005. So so it's it's for me entrepreneurship was like a solution to a problem. And my problem was how can I live around the world without having to commit to a place? I didn't want to go back to Italy.
00:09:44:12 - 00:10:00:21
Matteo Grassi
I didn't know if I wanted to go back to a English speaking country. I actually arrived in Ireland because it was the only English speaking country where I was able to get a job after Italy. So if I could work remotely, I probably would have never arrived here. I would have would have lived anywhere but Ireland or UK.
00:10:01:10 - 00:10:04:14
Matteo Grassi
So for me, entrepreneurship was just a path to freedom, nothing more.
00:10:05:19 - 00:10:25:16
Rob Napoli
I love that because I, you know, I actually the episode, as we're recording the episode has a drop of the episode will drop by the time episodes out. I did an episode with Ron Richards, who was a really good friend of mine. He's entrepreneur and we were talking about what is that we did a two part, two part episode, and the second part was about, you know, walking your talk.
00:10:26:09 - 00:10:45:00
Rob Napoli
And he said, for him, entrepreneurship was not about getting rich. You wanted to get rich. Usually, you know, you can get rich by working a good corporate job. Investing for your massive entrepreneurship is about for him, about freedom. The freedom to be able to pick and choose what you want to do at the cost, at times of money.
00:10:45:05 - 00:11:12:18
Rob Napoli
Right. And you're actually the third person in the last two weeks that has said the same thing to me about entrepreneurship and I love this. And freedom to you is traveling the world for him to us exploring theme to you with all these things. And entrepreneurship was that way before Smart working for remote working happened. So talk to me about, you know, your solution to your problem was to start a business.
00:11:13:01 - 00:11:33:21
Rob Napoli
But you know, you talked and put in the intro that you failed a couple of times with those failures. The first thing that happened, did you like Strike gold? The first business? You fail with the first business. Talk to me about what your journey was like Once you you know, you figured out your solution and you decided to start going into this and then, you know, it wasn't as easy as you thought.
00:11:34:21 - 00:11:55:20
Matteo Grassi
Yeah, I think running a business is is hard. And I think it's it's especially when you are starting what I found was the hardest is like you have to focus on building a product is the same time you have to focus on running marketing. I've done these as well on my own for a long time and then I went into partnerships and those partnerships were not necessarily good, good for me.
00:11:56:06 - 00:12:17:08
Matteo Grassi
They weren't good partners. I guess other people that I got along with at the time and big talkers and and they ended up, I think, kind of threw me over a few times. I got screwed over twice, to be honest with you. Meaning that I went into this without signing a contract, without thinking about, hey, you know, if this goes, what do I do?
00:12:17:09 - 00:12:48:00
Matteo Grassi
What I don't do? And to me, I walked out. I walked out twice. Just because I didn't want to lose time anymore for me was more important to getting my freedom back, to focus on what I wanted rather than say I was never able to detach myself from the businesses that I owns. And that was a blessing in the course again, at the same time, because I did, I just I just couldn't stay there and keep on being sync.
00:12:48:00 - 00:13:24:16
Rob Napoli
Yeah. So, you know, you hit on something that I know a lot of entrepreneurs do this right? And I work with a lot of accelerators here in New York City, especially like European accelerators and companies I work with coming from all over the world South America, Latin America, Europe and even a little bit Asia-Pac. It's so many times I see these, you know, solo founders who are desperate, looking to give up equity to hire a CTO or hire, you know, CIO and they're so quick to jump into relationships over business without realizing that it's kind of like a marriage.
00:13:24:16 - 00:13:44:09
Rob Napoli
It's it's, you know, this is why you put a contract together. So I need to have these conversations. You know, you need to spend a lot of time to get to know each other, the business that I have taken up. And so my business partner, Phil and I had been friends for a couple of years before we talk a lot about, you know, potentially working together and before we went all in and we actually tested it on a couple of small projects to see.
00:13:44:09 - 00:14:10:20
Rob Napoli
And we had we sat down and had an hour long conversation where he kind of write out all of his like, kind of fears, questions, thoughts. And I did the same. And we just we talk through it to see if that was working. And I see so many founders make that mistake where they get screwed over because they jump into a shotgun marriage with a co-founder that they don't really know are talks that game, but they never took the time to validate with each other and it causes problems.
00:14:10:20 - 00:14:32:08
Rob Napoli
I appreciate you sharing that and it's something that I've seen a lot. I joined the company for a brief stint and that was the experience I had. I didn't take the time to ask the right questions. I got. So, you know, it's easy to get enamored by the bright lights, right? Like I have a business on staff. So I appreciate you sharing that.
00:14:32:22 - 00:14:56:05
Rob Napoli
And as you kind of had these experience happen, what where that teach you that drove the success of your current businesses because you're able to then, you know, you've had a couple of times, then you raised three or four or $5 million just to pitch that question. Not easy to do, right? So talk to me about that. What made you you know, you said you could detach yourself, but you need to get time back.
00:14:56:05 - 00:14:57:05
Rob Napoli
out of freedom.
00:14:57:23 - 00:14:58:03
Matteo Grassi
Hmm.
00:14:58:20 - 00:15:06:07
Rob Napoli
Talking about that changing point. And what did that teach you to go do? And why do you think it helped make you successful with your current businesses?
00:15:08:01 - 00:15:33:00
Matteo Grassi
I have to go to my co-founder at the inquiry, and I think it's just finding the right, finding the right person and to do it to do it with in terms of the set of skills, first of all, the values, the also the ability to be very, very difference and having meaningful conversation where you can have positive conflicts.
00:15:33:00 - 00:15:53:02
Matteo Grassi
I, I wouldn't even call it conflict, but you different opinions, but then you're kind of driving each other right into into the opposite direction. Right. Where you're really good at, you know, is really meticulous, is really good at planning. I'm just like this bulldozer that just plow through. And there's always this pull and pull of like for me just getting shit done quickly.
00:15:53:02 - 00:16:19:15
Matteo Grassi
And for him, just like to pull it back and making sure that everything is, is, is not right, you know? And I think these two forces that align because there's no ego in the middle, I think that allow us to to go through so much you know, because it wasn't it wasn't easy when people blocked 750,000 of our money and that was 85% of equity overnight, a week before Black Friday.
00:16:20:04 - 00:16:37:16
Matteo Grassi
You know, with it's like this is really crazy stuff that happened to us and we pulled through. Right. Also, we literally were about to run out of money before we raised like I think we had like a month left, like, right, completely like joke. I think it was like, if we don't raise now, we have to fire everyone.
00:16:38:08 - 00:16:57:12
Matteo Grassi
Because we started up bootstrapped in a way we, we didn't. We raised with a pitch stack, but we had also an MVP of an ideal product. We kind of tested before. We didn't come with the problem that we have today. We had the kind of an idea of the products, but so we were building for a bit. Yeah, I think I think that's what I learn.
00:16:57:12 - 00:17:21:10
Matteo Grassi
I learned. I learned as well. I learned through my marriage, you know, culture that you spoke with. This is my second wife. I divorced when my daughter was one years old. My daughter is now ten. So nine years ago, like divorce after a relationship of seven years. And and I learned so much about, you know, finding the right person and and you know, how to have meaningful conversation.
00:17:21:10 - 00:17:50:00
Matteo Grassi
Foster the relationship. Nourish the relationship. There is so many similarities about marriage and and and a co-founder relationship and I find as well in marriage it's you got this as we were talking about it like 2 seconds ago. Right. We were you were saying it's like you get the flashlights and you have the annual periods. You know, But in reality, it's not just about, hey, you know, what do you like to do or you know, how to you are it's like, what are your values?
00:17:50:00 - 00:18:05:24
Matteo Grassi
What what's what's your religion? What's what do you believe is right or wrong? What are your ethics with your family? You know, it's like people forget, Before you enter a relationship, you have to really, really did dig deep is not just it's like, oh, what kind of skills do you have? And you look like a cool dude.
00:18:06:19 - 00:18:11:18
Matteo Grassi
What a cool God it is like, yeah, let's let's, let's start the business like this.
00:18:11:18 - 00:18:32:05
Rob Napoli
It's crazy because, you know, and then on the flip side of that is that relationships are work, right? And when business, you know, you have that relationship with, with a with a partner or a co-founder, right. You you get to a point where like you have downtimes, you have hard times and you're going to fight, things going to happen and it's having bounce back.
00:18:32:05 - 00:18:55:17
Rob Napoli
How do you balance business and professional? How do you go through tough times and work at it and make it happen? And that's what I think so many a lot of co-founder relationship I see fail is that the minute that business gets harder, things don't go right. They don't know how to work through that. I think that's a really important piece and here we talk about one of the big things is finding the right people around you, building the right support network.
00:18:55:21 - 00:19:30:18
Rob Napoli
I think it's really important for all people to have their support network. I call my personal board of advisors, whatever you want to call your community, your tribe. And I know one of the things that you created in all the different things is, you know, you've lost a couple. So I got to say, that's heartbroken. Yeah, like charity impacts, not him, you know, you lost and not him, which is for a kind of, you know, men, founders who don't have the type of support systems that tech emotional support.
00:19:31:20 - 00:19:45:17
Rob Napoli
When you're doing all these things and you're trying to spread this message, why is it so important for you to to make sure that there's people and support systems in place in this world of entrepreneurship that is kind of crazy and always on the go.
00:19:47:01 - 00:20:07:01
Matteo Grassi
To me, it's always been very simple. It's like when I create, it's when I must have a co-founder pop up. We're trying to solve a problem that we had. And when I founded Anonym, I was still trying to solve a problem and I had, which was I don't have a support system of other founders, and I feel alone.
00:20:07:01 - 00:20:25:17
Matteo Grassi
Every arena alone is like, am I am I the only one that is going through this? And I was researching a lot and it was like women groups are constantly being bombarded by this amazing support system that women created. Because I think naturally women are like this, right? And and men are not. So that's why suicide rate is five times higher.
00:20:25:17 - 00:20:43:07
Matteo Grassi
Men. I was just trying to create something for myself, to be honest with you. And then it was like, I don't want anyone to go through what I'm going through. So when I started to talk to other founders and realizing it's like, Oh my God, this people that are even ten times more successful than me, people were raise ton of money.
00:20:43:17 - 00:21:02:15
Matteo Grassi
They have like in terms of like financial stability and everything like ten times more than I am and are even more burnout. And so I was like, there's nothing to do with the fact that, you know, as start up or raising money or what am I should I own or does not, has nothing to do like this.
00:21:02:22 - 00:21:16:23
Matteo Grassi
Like mental health is a struggle that anyone can go through in every point of their career. And I just didn't want other people to do the same. So for me, it was let's let's let's do this. Let's solve my problem and maybe I can help others as well. At the same time.
00:21:17:13 - 00:21:31:02
Rob Napoli
I love that. I think it's important for you out there that's saying, you know, if you ever feel like you're kind of alone, you're probably not. And it's probably a sign to talk to somebody, whether it's us, whether it's joining a group. But I always tell people in my lessons, I've had a lot of conversations, a lot of ideas about different parts of their mental health.
00:21:31:02 - 00:21:51:05
Rob Napoli
And it's like, if anyone ever is struggling, call me. Like, I'm happy to have a conversation that I'm a professional and I will always say, Go find a professional, but I'm always happy to be in in the end. And I think it's really important for those out there. It gets really easy to put your head down and try to build something and go at it and it consumes you.
00:21:51:09 - 00:22:08:13
Rob Napoli
Entrepreneurship, Running a business, building a business. And sometimes you look up and around and you see a lot of because you put so much time and energy into building something and just know that you're not. And there's resources, there's people and there's things and you need to talk about it, right? Yeah, it's going to help. It just helps to be able to get it out.
00:22:08:13 - 00:22:21:08
Rob Napoli
It's not pushing to get out of your system, so I just want to plug that. I think it's a good time to just say, like if you have them out there in the audience, you know, whoever feels that way, make sure you talk to somebody. There's so many resources and it helps.
00:22:22:12 - 00:22:53:17
Matteo Grassi
Yeah, I think it's on to other point, a lot of your time with mental health, we have underlying conditions and business. It's a way to escape to this and it's kind of you enter in a vicious circle. It's like you're ready to have some trauma or you're going through some stuff and you just focusing on work and overworking because you don't want to deal with your shit and eventually everything just accumulates is literally this vicious circle You're overworking, so you're not dealing with something enough to deal with your problems.
00:22:53:22 - 00:23:12:21
Matteo Grassi
You probably might sit there, but then you're adding all the problems and the drama that, you know, running a business is. And then eventually you explode. And I found that myself. I was like, Why do I get so obsessed about solving this problem in the business? And I realize because if I'm constantly it's my mind is in that then is not in everything else that I need to fix.
00:23:13:10 - 00:23:22:17
Matteo Grassi
And that's and that happens. So sometimes it's you don't have any problems and you just get burnout from work by design. It's it's underlying condition that surface.
00:23:22:17 - 00:23:39:01
Rob Napoli
Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that. I think you should put it out there for people to know that everybody's journey is unique because it's their own journey, right? But there are people that are going through similar things, people and some are spots of life. Some say it's nice where they can help talk a chat and to leverage that.
00:23:39:15 - 00:24:12:03
Rob Napoli
So I appreciate you sharing that. Now, what I want to flip it over to pop up. Right. And I really think it's interesting because, you know, you also ran or part of a startup that helped build brands for e-commerce. What got you in when you were looking at, you know, think back to after New York City, you went to Australia, all these things and you're looking at the world early 2000 online shopping is starting to get big, but it's not quite there yet.
00:24:12:03 - 00:24:18:11
Rob Napoli
You know, we really hit the online shopping boom more in 2012/13 to 16.
00:24:18:11 - 00:24:20:10
Matteo Grassi
Yeah, Facebook, Facebook times.
00:24:20:16 - 00:24:44:15
Rob Napoli
Exactly. So what got you into the ecommerce world? You know, put yourself kind of back in. I think you got into kind of the e-commerce brand building in that when you were at Shopify, too, Right. So you kind of saw that back in the day and 2016. But what got you what started you down this road to realizing e-commerce is a place that you wanted to be a part of?
00:24:45:20 - 00:25:01:06
Matteo Grassi
I wish to have like a more inspiring answer, but to be honest with you, it was literally like, What the hell can I do with my kids right now? Which I have a degree in psychology. So I was in like, What can I do? Right? It's like I was I didn't go to college. I have a degree in psychology.
00:25:01:06 - 00:25:18:06
Matteo Grassi
So to me was a shift in front psychology to marketing. And I was like, What can I do today to make money online that will allow me to have the freedom, what I want to, what I can leverage over the world, and literally it was like I can start to branch, I can just start the brand and sell online.
00:25:18:12 - 00:25:55:11
Matteo Grassi
I can sell online, can sell stuff online. And my first project was a beauty tunics brand. Like Workwear initially wasn't working towards Joe was. I wanted to build this kind of cool streetwear brands with nanotechnology fabrics, but when I put the business plan together, I actually was smart enough to put the pieces back together. I realized that the appreciation of the goods would not allow me to actually, you know, I was going to fail within two years because I, as the season were coming in, the goods were depreciating and but I had all these contacts about, you know, like nanotechnol fabrics already established.
00:25:56:00 - 00:26:12:08
Matteo Grassi
And so it was like, what can I build that doesn't appreciate over time? So if I buy stock, then I don't have to rush to actually sell it. And was like, yeah, what, where? And that's why I started to work wear brands textile uniforms. Now that was that's awesome.
00:26:12:09 - 00:26:33:10
Rob Napoli
I mean, it's it's crazy to me because I think it's interesting that, you know, as an artist, people just kind of fall into it. They have an idea and they kind of matriculate on it and kind of follow the path and it's like, that's the right thing. But it gets you to that place where all of a sudden it's like, Oh, here's the plan.
00:26:33:10 - 00:26:50:19
Rob Napoli
I've just been running it. Like I'm kind of like driving off in the wilderness all of a sudden, like the highway pops up, Like, this is an expressway that I need to be taking. And it happens because you took a chance, because you realize you need to switch psychology into marketing and you start going into marketing. And then you found a brand, the client that you can do something with.
00:26:50:19 - 00:27:14:00
Rob Napoli
And it just I think that's the most many of us don't especially, you know, the elder millennial generation. We didn't get taught entrepreneurship in school. There wasn't entrepreneurship courses the way there are now, you know. So I think that for a lot of us, it's not like, Oh yeah, we grew up that aspired to be an entrepreneur. You kind of fall into it because of things about realizing what your passions are.
00:27:14:22 - 00:27:28:20
Rob Napoli
And I want to and I want to ask you, what do you think your passion is to travel and experience the world, right? What do you think? That you're in love and experiences Traveling has helped make you a better business owner? Operator.
00:27:28:21 - 00:28:04:22
Matteo Grassi
Leader Yes, 100 percent. I think I changed as well. I think my passion have shifted. Obviously, I'm 40 now, so I think very different from when I was 22 or 2025. I still love traveling. I would say I still feel very comfortable in when I'm when I'm in a nomadic state. I think traveling allow me to learn how to be comfortable with the uncomfortable and how to be in situations where I don't know, I'm not really aware of what's going on, but I still have to make it happen for myself with very little.
00:28:05:05 - 00:28:27:08
Matteo Grassi
And if you think about entrepreneurship at Startup is actually that, it's like you are in a situation where you've never been before. It's exciting because like, like going into a new country or moving to a new country is exciting but scary at the same time. It's like you don't have enough money and you have to make the most of it and and you have to build something slowly.
00:28:27:12 - 00:28:35:09
Matteo Grassi
And progressing in your life is same, same, same for me. So I think that's what does. Yeah, that was the lesson I think.
00:28:35:09 - 00:28:37:08
Rob Napoli
Yeah. Because for me.
00:28:37:21 - 00:28:38:01
Matteo Grassi
As.
00:28:39:04 - 00:29:04:04
Rob Napoli
Well, for me, I so I never left the U.S. but I went to Cancun. Spring break 2008. I kind of don't count it like, you know, I never really left the U.S. I still haven't been west of there. I mean, actually, I went to Cabo and we flew to Salt Lake and then down. So the first time I flew across like the Rockies area, like I know I never made it past the Rockies.
00:29:04:04 - 00:29:26:06
Rob Napoli
I was in Colorado because, like, it's farthest west. I've been with like Salt Lake. Some have been out to the West Coast. And prior to me going to Italy, I hadn't been out to New York. I basically all the Midwestern states down to Florida, and that was about it. And but I'd always wanted to travel, but I was always kind of afraid for being honest.
00:29:26:19 - 00:29:40:14
Rob Napoli
And it was when I met my now wife in small town Iowa, and she was like, We're dating three months. She goes Rob and then back to Europe. After I graduated to get a masters. I don't do a long distance. We either break up in in the Arctic or would you want to come with me? I'm like, last Why?
00:29:40:14 - 00:30:12:15
Rob Napoli
I could go and, you know, moving to New York actually was easy because I had just spent two years living abroad, not speaking the language and trying to figure out how to take a train and do this and do that. And I feel like I'm able to be a business owner and leader and do these things much better because I'm much more comfortable with being in weird, uncomfortable situations where there is no roadmap, there's no guidebook, right?
00:30:12:15 - 00:30:29:06
Rob Napoli
And you have to make you have to think on your feet. You don't have the information and you can't get the information. So you have to make decisions. And that's why I think traveling really opened my eyes to is sometimes you just got to figure the fuck out. Yeah. And I think that really I found entrepreneurship when I was living in Italy.
00:30:29:06 - 00:30:43:10
Rob Napoli
So like for me it was like entrepreneurship. I was I was learning so many lessons from like coaching American football and traveling on this thing. So I love that answer because I feel the same way and I feel like me traveling has opened up the world for me.
00:30:43:22 - 00:31:04:00
Matteo Grassi
And also like the uncertainty. And also there's no there's no full back. There's no mommy and daddy or anyone. You're like alone. A lot of people don't understand. There's like, if you moved in a different country, you're alone. Like things. Things don't go as planned, especially at the very beginning. You have no friends. You literally are on your own and this is this is a lot of your time.
00:31:04:00 - 00:31:14:17
Matteo Grassi
So in such a business, you know, it's like it takes time before you create a network. It is like you feel like you feel like I'm on my own. Like I it's just me. Yeah. So it's a good it's a really good point.
00:31:16:00 - 00:31:39:01
Rob Napoli
So as you you know, you're talking about your life is changing, right? And the things that things that are important to you kind of change. What do you see? You know, you've got pop up, which is, you know, amazing. Mm hmm. What do you see happening with pop up in the next few years? Like, what is your goal with that business and and growing it?
00:31:40:03 - 00:32:00:14
Matteo Grassi
I think pop up is a rocket ship is if they're going to blow we're going to reinvent. So people have been building online stores for the last 30 years. Right. We're going to change our how fundamentally people have been building online stores since since and since the nineties or we're going to blow up. But we have good signs that we're on the right track.
00:32:00:24 - 00:32:35:12
Matteo Grassi
So so I don't think we're going to blow up. But it is a it is a company that in this current market, it's markets, it's, it's not it's not easy to run because people once investor wants safe bets now and pop up is it's not really that one of the safest bet is really safe to me because once you do once you use it, you're that like you we only tackle what an end to end e-commerce platform.
00:32:35:12 - 00:32:52:11
Matteo Grassi
We don't need anyone else. So it's not like you can be replaced by an app or, you know, it's just like literally if you demonstrate and you can remain. We were building online stores and people start to dig this way, then there's no one else that is doing that. So before everyone arrives, we're going to take time. So it dominates the market, right?
00:32:52:11 - 00:33:09:06
Matteo Grassi
You monopolize the market. So to me it's not really a bad bet. But yeah, for a lot of investor, I think they want to see, you know, the early traction, the early customers and things like that. And I think that they should that we always seem we pop up early. Customers are hard to get.
00:33:09:22 - 00:33:28:04
Rob Napoli
They are. And especially in today's day and age where things are saturated, there's a lot more things coming at you and it's out of this conversation instead of trying to understand it. You know, the the investment world has changed, too. They want to see that traction, that abstractions hard to get when you don't have tons of money to throw out marketing and acquisition.
00:33:28:04 - 00:33:31:00
Rob Napoli
Like there's a whole cycle for us.
00:33:31:00 - 00:33:54:06
Matteo Grassi
This products, I think is like the product is so big too that to achieve a minimum feature parity with a platform like Shopify, you just takes a long time and people have this misconception of like in e-commerce that there are like the merchants that make a ton of money and then the merchants that make no money. And somehow the two things, the two of them uses different platforms, platform have the same.
00:33:54:07 - 00:34:11:12
Matteo Grassi
You can make 10,000 a year, we're making 10 million a year. You're still processing order, you still need to check how you're seeing your payments. You still in the front end. I've done businesses that were making 10,000 a year and then we made 10 million a year. The sides were the same. I sat on this chair, so it's not like, Oh, you can build for the small guys.
00:34:11:12 - 00:34:39:00
Matteo Grassi
When you build your business, you can, you build for the big guys, you build first of all, guys. So there's not like, Oh yeah, I'll build that small product and started with the smaller guys in it. So I think that's, that's the that's a big challenge I think of pop up and I have to thank, I think my co-founder for these because he is running products at broker engineering not I, I have to say has been everything on him in the last year.
00:34:39:08 - 00:34:52:23
Rob Napoli
Yeah I love that. I know for those out there I highly if you're in the ecommerce space check out pop up they also have a really cool podcast called Pop up advice giving you all kinds of advice and I think ecommerce and for.
00:34:53:10 - 00:34:56:03
Matteo Grassi
A nice, nice community on Discord where we invite experts and.
00:34:56:03 - 00:35:13:24
Rob Napoli
Stuff. So that's amazing. And that's and that's, you know, I think the e-commerce was an interesting one and there's a lot of opportunity and pop up is reinventing the online store right we are trying to do is you're powering the next generation through no code e-commerce platform that lets you control the journey visually build up stores, sell anything anywhere in the world.
00:35:13:24 - 00:35:37:13
Rob Napoli
Right. Yeah it's it's as you said, an end to end solution to really help the sellers have a peace of mind so they have a stable platform and they can own and that's what's hard is you have all these are platforms you have to go on Amazon and you guys have to do this and then you have to pay paywall after pay off your paywall to own this image and have this thing is like, where can I have an easier to read brand that is on brand?
00:35:37:23 - 00:35:38:07
Matteo Grassi
Yeah.
00:35:38:18 - 00:36:00:00
Rob Napoli
So I think it's important for anyone out there and e-commerce will check them out, check out their pop of advice, pretty cool stuff As we kind of close this out. I always like to ask this question What advice if you had a millennial or a Gen Z or even an older person is going to said, Hey, I'm looking at starting my business management, or what advice would you give them?
00:36:00:04 - 00:36:04:15
Rob Napoli
What nugget of wisdom would you tell somebody who asks you for advice on being an entrepreneur?
00:36:05:02 - 00:36:28:01
Matteo Grassi
Yeah, I would say there's no blueprint to success, so forget about everyone that is telling you, Hey, you have to do this. You have to take cold baths, you have to wake up at 4 a.m. or you have to wake up at 8 a.m. or take inspiration, I think, from other people. Tested it out for yourself, see if it fits within your values, within your routines, within within your happiness, and focus on the journey.
00:36:28:12 - 00:36:56:20
Matteo Grassi
Don't do really think about I'm going to become an entrepreneur because I want to build a platform like me, for example, that says it's going to reinvent the online store. I, I want to do that. It's a mission about a reality. I'm just having. I'm trying to focus on the journey that that if you focus too much on the goal, there's so much stress that you put yourself into it of like achieving the next family around and growing this.
00:36:56:20 - 00:37:15:02
Matteo Grassi
And then, you know, revenue, revenue, revenue. And you have to the 1 million and then 10 million, then 100 million, and then I want to be a unicorn and do a big exit when I'm 50. It's all good. I'm not saying don't have a plan, but it's just there, the journey there, it's it's going to take you to places that you don't know.
00:37:15:02 - 00:37:21:16
Matteo Grassi
So just focus on the journey and try to enjoy it. Otherwise it you're just robbing someone's time of your life.
00:37:22:05 - 00:37:37:21
Rob Napoli
I mean, I talk a lot about goal markers in the sand and like finding, you know, being involved in the journey and you pick up the flag and you put it there and you go accomplish that and you put it in, move it. And instead of having, you know, I want to be when I have $10 million the next five years, that's a huge goal.
00:37:37:21 - 00:37:56:08
Rob Napoli
And it's very future weighted. And it's hard to make really easy if you if you don't see success early. Everything seems to fast track versus like be addicted to the process. The pursuit of it is what said you have these goal goal markers or guideposts that you you had and understand what you hit. One, there's always going to be another one, right?
00:37:56:11 - 00:38:13:20
Rob Napoli
I think, you know, you and I were talking for here, it's it's easy to think about guideposts. Our goals are guideposts post a lot of a journey, but goals are not your destination, right? I thought I was really I like the way you kind of say that because it's the other day. There's only something else to be done somewhere else to go.
00:38:13:21 - 00:38:18:13
Rob Napoli
Like it doesn't stop. So enjoy the journey. While you have the time to enjoy the journey.
00:38:19:00 - 00:38:36:23
Matteo Grassi
Yes. I hope your sense and and I'm the words for that. Like I want the audience to know. And so like, I give advice to people because I, I spend a lot of time just focusing on the next milestone and woke up and I look back and I was like, Oh my God, I'm here now. I feel really happy.
00:38:36:23 - 00:38:54:05
Matteo Grassi
No, like right now I'm 40 and I'm going to probably the peak of my career that I haven't been, but I'm struggling more with my mental health today than I have ever been in my life, even though I was on social welfare, going through divorce and all of that, I was still better than what I have right now.
00:38:54:07 - 00:39:06:23
Matteo Grassi
I have a really, really good life right now, but I'm struggling more than ever. So it doesn't mean that if you achieve what you want to achieve, you're going to be happy. It doesn't. It doesn't. It might not happen, right? So you have to enjoy the process no matter what.
00:39:07:14 - 00:39:16:17
Rob Napoli
Love that. Absolutely love that. I thank you so much for joining the show today. Where can my listeners find you? What can I learn more connect with you at.
00:39:17:05 - 00:39:40:11
Matteo Grassi
I'm also kind of off Facebook and Instagram. Social media deactivated my account but I'm very active LinkedIn so you can find me there. And I also have my links there with all my links with like, you know, the podcast that I do and, and pop up and they've found this community and they doing just a bunch of things that I got involved with.
00:39:40:23 - 00:39:58:14
Rob Napoli
Well, I will drop the link tree in the show notes. Like I just click the show notes, find it easy to connect with Matteo. You wouldn't even get into the DIDO, which I know Kye and I talks a lot about reinventing charity. You know, you're reinventing e-commerce platforms or reinventing charity. Like I love to see what y'all are doing.
00:39:59:07 - 00:40:08:13
Rob Napoli
So many cool things. So I appreciate you taking some time to be a part of the podcast to share a little bit of your lessons and journey with us. Mateo, appreciate you so much, my friend.
00:40:09:00 - 00:40:09:12
Matteo Grassi
Thanks, Rob.
00:40:09:22 - 00:40:18:12
Rob Napoli
You bet. Bear Nation, Once again, thank you for tuning in. Make sure you like, subscribe, do all those things. Leave a review and till next time, stay well. Rise up.