We kick off a new season with fresh content and more focus on digging deeper into specific topics around entrepreneurship and scaling a business. Timmy Bauer is the Founder and CEO of Dinosaur House, helping turn industry leaders into children’s book authors. He has a beef with social selling…. And as Rob has written a book on personal branding, he wanted to dive deeper to understand what Timmy doesn’t like about “Social Selling” - check out this episode to find out!
We kick off a new season with fresh content and more focus on digging deeper into specific topics around entrepreneurship and scaling a business. Timmy Bauer is the Founder and CEO of Dinosaur House, helping turn industry leaders into children’s book authors. He has a beef with social selling…. And as Rob has written a book on personal branding, he wanted to dive deeper to understand what Timmy doesn’t like about “Social Selling” - check out this episode to find out!
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Transcript_Ep 64: Why You Should Stop Social Selling
Season & Episode Intro
00;00;07;18 - 00;00;35;07
Rob Napoli
Hey, how we doing? Rob Napoli here, the host, the Bare Necessities podcast. And I'm excited to bring you today's episode. In fact, today this episode is the first episode of Season two, as you all have maybe known, if you're, you know, a Tier one, a player and have been with me since the very beginning. Or, you know, if you're joining me along the journey somewhere in the middle or you're just finding me now, I want to thank you for being a part of the show.
00;00;35;07 - 00;01;02;14
Rob Napoli
We are kicking off season two. We've been going for over a year now. We celebrate a one year anniversary of the pod last month. I've had some amazing episodes, 63 episodes leading up till now. Guest from I think we've got 31 countries and 15 states represented entrepreneurs from different countries, different states around the world. The idea that we should entrepreneurship is from everywhere.
00;01;03;07 - 00;01;27;06
Rob Napoli
We've also brought in high level innovation managers and accelerator partners. Talk a little bit about the ecosystem, and that's why I'm excited about season two that we've continue to evolve with this pod and season two is now definitely going to continue to grow. You're going to be hearing a lot more from me doing some solo episodes. We're still going to do features, some founders and some founder journey stories.
00;01;27;07 - 00;01;48;04
Rob Napoli
We're going to start picking out individual topics around entrepreneurship and digging into them. We've already had a couple episodes in the Power of social video content, ask an angel, things of that nature. So I'm excited about what we have coming up in store. I'm also going to be bringing on some guest hosts where they'll come in for a number of episodes.
00;01;48;10 - 00;02;14;20
Rob Napoli
A people you might know of or not know of, some that have current podcasts, some used to run podcasts. Some aspiring podcasters come on. Well, we're going to have our discussions and key topics in discovery, so should be a lot of fun and looking forward to this new season. New Edition Continued Excellence. Continue trying to show it. Entrepreneurship is to all the listeners across the 65 countries that are tuning in.
00;02;14;20 - 00;02;34;25
Rob Napoli
Thank you so much for being a part of this journey with me. I have enjoyed it. I have learned so much and I can't tell you how appreciative I am. That being said, I'm excited to drop this episode. In fact, this episode was supposed to drop after his other episodes. You're going to hear from again my friend Timmy Bauer joined me on the show.
00;02;35;15 - 00;02;58;13
Rob Napoli
We did a couple of things. One was talking about his journey of managing a business and being a founder with ADHD. ADHD, that this is going to be coming in a couple of weeks. Why I like this one is I wrote a book on this topic and one of the things that Timmy share with me, that he is tired of seeing people.
00;02;58;27 - 00;03;26;15
Rob Napoli
I'm social selling. And so I wanted to dig in what that means because I wrote a book called The Social Self about building your personal brand so that you can leverage that into relationships. And we get into, you know, that dreaded connected pitchman tally and dreaded always talking about social selling and using social like email when the where we leverage social in the way that we create relationships, build value and sell comes in different forms.
00;03;27;24 - 00;03;52;21
Rob Napoli
So without further ado, I'm excited to introduce you to two of our who is just an amazing human and person. We were introduced through a mutual friend and ally who is a guest on the show and she had met me and was like, Yo, Rob, you've got to meet me. The two of you will do great things. And I was like, Let's do it.
00;03;54;04 - 00;04;19;25
Rob Napoli
You're only a stranger. But once they've asked, say and Timmy is the author of Lucas the Dinosaur Entrepreneur A Kid's book that teaches entrepreneurship. So what better than to have on the podcast the bare necessities of entrepreneurship? And he founded Dinosaur House with the intent to turn industry leaders into kids book authors. So I'm really excited to share this episode with you.
00;04;20;10 - 00;04;40;15
Rob Napoli
Make sure after the show and in the show notes to check out where you can learn more. And thank you for being a part of this. Without further ado, let's get into the show.
Episode 64_Main Podcast
Rob Napoli
Hey, I'll rob Napoli. Here we are back again for another episode of The Bare Necessities. And I'm excited because I brought back a guest of mine.
00;04;40;15 - 00;04;59;26
Rob Napoli
We had a great podcast, our recording earlier about his journey from Disney performer to traveling children's author to running a company that helps industry leaders write their own children. But Tammy Bower, thank you for coming back and joining the pod. How you doing?
00;05;00;17 - 00;05;02;17
Timmy Bauer
Happy to do it. Thanks for having me.
00;05;02;17 - 00;05;38;21
Rob Napoli
Yeah. So reason why I wanted to bring you on and kind of record this episode is, you know, we talked a lot about in our first episode ADHD and managing as a founder and as most things that we started to touch on the power that you've built with your network and in building a value at a network. And one of the things that we did in kind of our pre-production meeting was I asked the question, what's one piece of advice that's kind of unpopular opinion these days that entrepreneurship and he said, stop social selling.
00;05;38;21 - 00;06;02;01
Rob Napoli
And I wanted tips. Yes, I wanted to expand upon it. So I'm actually doing a panel on as as a panelist on social saying and I love the idea of social selling. In fact, my book, the social Snow So is actually called the Social Sell It. And I moved that over to Social Saw because I really don't like the idea of social selling and I'm going to hold my my reasoning.
00;06;03;00 - 00;06;22;12
Rob Napoli
I still believe in social saying there's a way to do it. But I think the power comes in social engagement through value out a network and building value first before you can even sell anything. But I'll tell you that the reason behind it. But I want to ask you before I get into my reasoning, why do you think we should stop social saying what does that mean to you?
00;06;22;12 - 00;06;24;08
Rob Napoli
And can you extrapolate on that a little bit?
00;06;25;07 - 00;06;49;13
Timmy Bauer
So after I said that, I then had an interview on my podcast with somebody who claims to be the inventor of social selling, and I forget what his name was, but, but. And I feel bad that I can't remember his name, but he claimed to be the inventor of social selling. He told me this story from like 2006 and him being at a conference and coming up with the idea for social selling.
00;06;49;27 - 00;07;13;15
Timmy Bauer
And and it was really interesting because I told him I was like, oh, that's interesting. I think that social selling is the bane of social media. Like, I think it's I think it's one of the I think it's one of the worst things about social media is social sellers. And and so the thing is, his version of what social selling does not sound like what I'm talking about when I say shows social selling.
00;07;13;17 - 00;07;32;17
Timmy Bauer
Yeah. But I think what I am talking about when I say sales, social selling matches, what most people think of when you say social selling. So what most people think of when you say social selling, I think is the bane of social media. It is the scourge of social media. It's the worst thing about having an online profile.
00;07;32;17 - 00;07;43;07
Timmy Bauer
Now, I'm just probably the worst thing is, is insecurity and the feelings of envy that you get when you look at other people being successful. But they may be right after that comes social selling, especially on LinkedIn.
00;07;44;23 - 00;07;59;21
Rob Napoli
And we talk about social selling. What exactly do you mean? Like what is what is social satire? Give me a definition of like, why is it the bane of existence, especially on LinkedIn? Like what? What happens all the time? And I know the answer about what happens all the time to our inboxes on LinkedIn that we hate about it.
00;08;01;00 - 00;08;18;16
Timmy Bauer
So I would say that the short answer is probably connecting with somebody for the purpose of selling to them and what it usually looks like is a dollar a cold. DM That's like, Hey, I want to add you to my professional network and then when you accept it, they give you their pitch and they want to have a 15 minute meeting with you.
00;08;18;19 - 00;08;40;01
Rob Napoli
Exactly. And I love that you say that because that happens so much, partly because we started to understand that people were not reading email the same way. Right. And so, oh, LinkedIn's professional network where are looking for a job or looking for some sort of product or service. And in that way it's like we can just connected pitch that people are more responsive.
00;08;40;17 - 00;09;02;02
Rob Napoli
And then we got into this like let's just blasted out to networks and that's why I changed the title from social salad to the social saw because I don't believe in connecting and pitching. I, I, I think that is the worst I can have is full time. Like, I'm happy to add people to my network. You want to if you think that I can provide you value or you can provide me value, connect.
00;09;02;14 - 00;09;23;19
Rob Napoli
But the minute that I get that email within an hour or 24 hours, that's pitching me on something. You're gone, I'm removing you, I'm unfollowing, I'm on connecting and I wrote the book and that's why I wrote the book. The Social. So I love this idea is I believe in the powers and social engagement, right? So you're going to connect with somebody.
00;09;23;19 - 00;09;35;08
Rob Napoli
There's got to be a reason. You shared a question in our last podcast. I don't know if you remember the question. What was the question that you when you connect with somebody new that you think can be valuable, what is the question that you always ask? And I love this question.
00;09;36;01 - 00;09;43;08
Timmy Bauer
Yeah. So one of my favorite questions to ask people is what is something that you currently suck at that a year from now you want to be great at?
00;09;43;08 - 00;09;53;11
Rob Napoli
And I love that question. And what does that usually do? Like when people respond, what do they usually respond with and how does that allow you to build a relationship with them?
00;09;53;11 - 00;10;14;17
Timmy Bauer
So half of the people will typically respond to something that's completely their personal life or hobby. So I get a lot of people that are, you know, in their forties and fifties, they'll say like, Oh, I want to get better at golf. And it's like, okay, awesome. Like clearly that's something that's a passion for you that you're like, when I think about what I suck at that a year from now I want to be great at it's golf.
00;10;14;25 - 00;10;38;13
Timmy Bauer
Okay, cool like that. That gives me something that they care about that I can stay connected with them about. But then that's half the people. The other half of the people will say something that's like directly related to their business, them as a leader in their business or, you know, I need to get better at writing better LinkedIn copy, I need to get better at time blocking and sticking to my time blocks.
00;10;38;19 - 00;11;00;19
Timmy Bauer
I need to get better at not taking my work stress home like that kind of stuff. And I the reason I came up with that question is because I think that I'm naturally not good at the consistent work that it takes to grow relationships and maintain, build and maintain relationships. It is not one of my core strengths. One of my core strengths is communication.
00;11;00;20 - 00;11;18;07
Timmy Bauer
So I thought that I was a natural relationship builder. But communication is just the front end of relationship building. The, the, the, the long haul of it is consistently, consistently reconnecting and making it about the other person.
00;11;19;02 - 00;11;38;05
Rob Napoli
See I love that like that speaks to my soul so much. And I love that question. Right, because that allows you to, to, to connect with them on something and tie back and develop relationship. Because, you know, the one thing I think about is, is sales is not linear, right? And timing is everything when it comes to selling.
00;11;38;05 - 00;11;58;13
Rob Napoli
And so maybe now's not the right time. Maybe they're connecting with you because they want to provide value to you. Are they can get value in your content. Maybe they're connecting with you because you know what? In the next quarter, they may be evaluating a new software. And because you're a salesperson, that software company that they want to connect to you now, they can have a point of reference for when they're ready.
00;11;58;22 - 00;12;22;10
Rob Napoli
And I think it's really important that this idea of social selling needs to kind of shift to engagement. What I mean by that is, is how do you reach out and build a genuine relationship? And I know that in sales there's a lot of people talking in sales right now about, you know, people don't want to buy from surveys have a relationship with right like you don't need to have a relationship with somebody to to buy a product or service that's okay.
00;12;22;10 - 00;12;40;22
Rob Napoli
Right. Like we there's there's the dark side of too much around a relationship because then you get in this trap that they're going to buy from you and they never do. And that becomes a problem. And, and all that. But then there's just too transactional and somewhere between. And I think you need to find where that balance is in your industry.
00;12;40;22 - 00;13;07;25
Rob Napoli
But if you're going to leverage social and the true power of social, it's about building a network that you can tap into, that you can sell to later, that you can create organic conversation around first because that organic conversation will open up the ability to ask questions, tougher questions around their their business, what they need to sell. And that's why on my even on my LinkedIn, I put a line in there that I'm on the hunt for the best whiskey bar Manhattan.
00;13;08;07 - 00;13;25;06
Rob Napoli
And that is like anyone that's trying to reach out to me. If you want to start a conversation with me, ask me that question, Hey, what's the best whiskey buy you've had in Manhattan? Why Manhattan? Why not Brooklyn? Why in Alaska? I know what the best whiskey bar in Brooklyn is, right? The beer whiskey. The Whiskey Family. Like, if you go to anyone, they're bars.
00;13;25;06 - 00;13;50;07
Rob Napoli
They got great whiskey and great vibes. It's like the best of both worlds. And so I think that's really important that we need to find a way to start a conversation and somebody that's not, hey, here's my product, buy it maybe. And not just like turn so many people off. And yeah, today is social media presence.
00;13;50;07 - 00;14;14;15
Timmy Bauer
I agree. I think I'd probably say different things depending on if you are a founder and or if you are a salesperson. So like founders typically do their own sales for the first couple of years of their business or, you know, maybe the first year of their business or at least the beginning of the business. And so I'm in that boat like all the revenue comes from, from me selling.
00;14;14;18 - 00;14;41;07
Timmy Bauer
Yeah, that's a little bit different than being a salesperson. So, so for me, it's pretty easy for me to say relationships are first like relationships over revenue because the business is an excuse to do or do relationships to do the kinds of things that I want to do when it comes to relationships. And it's easy to say that when you own the business, I own the business like I'm trying to influence the minds of kids.
00;14;41;07 - 00;15;01;21
Timmy Bauer
I'm trying to help parents connect more deeply with their kids over something that mom or dad is passionate about. I'm trying to help in industry influencers influence the way that kids think about, you know, different careers and think creatively about their future. So, so, like, and I want to grow relationships with other successful entrepreneurs because I'm trying to be a successful entrepreneur.
00;15;01;21 - 00;15;20;14
Timmy Bauer
So I've got a lot of really good reasons to, to, to want to pursue relationship over revenue. Yeah. Whereas if you're a salesperson, I don't 100% know how to answer that question. My hunch is still relationship over revenue, but I'm not 100% sure what that would look like as a dedicated sales person, and I probably need to know the answer to that question.
00;15;20;14 - 00;15;40;14
Rob Napoli
Yeah, I think I saw a different right. And what my buddy Walker McCabe has a podcast where he talks about relationships are not the be all in sales and his theory was great and this is what I love that you and I purposely share this with you to to get your reaction the way I did, because it's different when you're a founder that sells and depending on your market, that is different.
00;15;40;21 - 00;15;59;20
Rob Napoli
I think that all founders should learn how to sell early in the business for a lot of reasons. I have I have all training module on this. People have heard me understand why all the time founders one need to know how to sell a product. They can't sell it. How can they expect the salesperson sell it to they need to be out there listening to their clients and customers early and often.
00;16;00;10 - 00;16;22;27
Rob Napoli
And three, how can you go sell an investor that you can go sell this company and grow it if you can't even sell the damn product to the customers you're trying to serve? So that's why I think that I've seen this out when founders are selling is a different type of sell, right? And we need it. And, and there's a lot of bad advice happening in the world today about sales for startups, especially sales for founders.
00;16;23;10 - 00;16;39;29
Rob Napoli
Founders need to understand what salespeople go first. They understand how to like do certain things like using a CRM and putting in notes and like getting out of their head and onto a system so that when they hire a salesperson later, they can learn how that works and how to do it and how to sell to this this customer base.
00;16;40;28 - 00;17;01;14
Rob Napoli
But the way a founder sells is different than the way a salesperson, right? So if you're at an SDR or at an organization of a, you know, a thousand people, the way you're reaching out and connecting and leveraging social selling is going to be different. Where I don't think you need to develop as deep a relationship. At the same point, it's you're up to your point here.
00;17;02;06 - 00;17;21;11
Rob Napoli
You can't forget about they're a human and you need to treat them as such. So I think that the concept of a personal brand and engagement is going to be even bigger because if I'm a salesperson and I want to sell to me, instead of just connecting and pitching, maybe I don't want to like build that, make you my best friend.
00;17;21;11 - 00;17;41;08
Rob Napoli
But I could do things like engage their content. I can a message. Hey, I really love what you're doing. Lucas The dinosaur entrepreneur. I think I was great. Where can I find that? More information? And in developing a two way conversation so that when you're like, Hey, I see that you work at Salesforce. I'm actually, you know, thinking about switching over to using some of your products.
00;17;41;08 - 00;17;56;16
Rob Napoli
What can you tell me? You know? And so you become like a value add a person that works on their timing. They can like, Oh, I know Rod who's the salesperson, this company let me reach out to him and ask the questions. And then it's kind of a warm way to do a sale in a different way. So it's kind of two different thinkings.
00;17;56;28 - 00;18;20;20
Rob Napoli
And I think that that's like we need to stop trying to jumble these things all into one. And that's why I love this topic and I love that advice that we need to we need to stop that idea of social selling really has changed in the power is in engagement. And you need to think about when you reach out to somebody, connect with them that you're giving them value on the other end and not just trying to pitch them a product.
00;18;21;07 - 00;18;33;14
Rob Napoli
That's the quickest way to lose. You lose respect, you lose your opportunity, you lose the whole kind of viability of getting them to connect with you in the first place. So that's kind of how I thought about it.
00;18;33;24 - 00;18;58;02
Timmy Bauer
I'm I'm a huge believer in the in the approach of called content based networking. So my best friend James wrote a book called Contemplates Networking. And what I love about it is it's on the front end about the other person. So if I if I'm connecting with somebody and I want to interview them or like make some content together, like my, my agenda is I think what I think what you've done is awesome.
00;18;58;02 - 00;19;20;02
Timmy Bauer
I want to shine the spotlight on you. I want to. I want this to be about you. Well, awesome. That like the fact that that is the start of our relationship. Like, the reality for me is most of the people that I'm connecting with on LinkedIn, it's not hard for me to think like, Oh yeah, they should do a kid's book because they're a leader of such and such an industry and there probably isn't a kid's book for that.
00;19;20;02 - 00;19;40;25
Timmy Bauer
So like most of the people that I'm connecting with would make a great customer of Dinosaur House. So, so, so naturally. Like, it's, it's not hard for me to go like, okay, like, that's pretty obvious. Like, this person should be the kids book author for such and such topic of book. But it's not obvious to them. And like, I would love for that to become obvious to them at some point.
00;19;40;25 - 00;19;57;26
Timmy Bauer
And then if it doesn't, the relationship needs to, for me needs to matter more so. So that's kind of my approach, like content based networking. It's sort of like I'll call DM somebody, but the goal is content based networking. I want to make awesome content together and in the process, get to know you. I love.
00;19;58;25 - 00;20;15;26
Rob Napoli
That. And that's that's what I think needs to happen more of even if you're a salesperson that are doing it and it's a little bit different in the way that it comes out. And that's why I say you don't say I need to build a strong relationship to be best friends, but you got to start building relationship in some way that is value focused first, right?
00;20;16;07 - 00;20;38;04
Rob Napoli
And then the transaction can happen and then all these things. So what is that value that you're giving them? What is that value that you create in their network by being a part of your network? Like, why would we link up? And I'm a big fan of not needing to like I don't send notes when I sign a contract request because it's pretty clear if you connect with me, you understand why you make an effort and you either wanting to consume my content.
00;20;39;08 - 00;20;51;07
Rob Napoli
You are somebody that I might be able to reach out to and connect the dots and sell to later. Or that, you know, you might, you know, be able to provide me value and you could see a two way.
00;20;51;08 - 00;21;08;16
Timmy Bauer
It looks better if you connect without a message. It just looks better. It's clear like like if somebody is connecting with me and they don't have a message, I'm going to be like, Who's this person? And I look at you and I'm like, You look like somebody that would be cool to connect with. But if they're sending the message, it's like, Is this really why they're connecting with me?
00;21;08;16 - 00;21;35;03
Rob Napoli
You're kind of skeptical, so you're just kind of waiting for once you accept for that next message to come within 24 hours, that's like, Hey, this is what we do buy from me. And it's always kind of that the same thing. I think that there's so much to learn from. And that's why I also I always say as as when you build your social profile on LinkedIn, on Instagram, I never have a phone.
00;21;35;17 - 00;21;49;17
Rob Napoli
In fact, how something that's me can see. And like for you, you were used to be a Disney actor. You wrote a book to connect with your brother. Trust in like I have so many things that can shoot you and ask you like, Hey, tell me, why was it so important for you to connect that trust in about that book?
00;21;49;17 - 00;22;11;23
Rob Napoli
Like I can start a conversation with you on seven different things based on your About Me section on LinkedIn. And that's that's important people out there if you're using social to connect with people so that you can sell eventually have them buy from you make it about them first look at what content they post the content engage engage with them in a way that shines a spotlight on them.
00;22;11;23 - 00;22;30;10
Rob Napoli
First and then open that door up after the conversation has already started a two way conversation. That's exactly what Timmy was saying. It's actually why I want to record this episode, because I think there's so much stigma around this idea of social selling and if source content out there when to break it down. Because this is important to me and it's why I wrote my book.
00;22;31;10 - 00;22;47;01
Rob Napoli
So I appreciate you, you know, letting me kind of do a quick wrap around with you and answer that question because I know we we just didn't get a chance to bring it up in the podcast. Sounds like I need to shoot a second episode. We need to bring Jimmy back, I guess. Important topic. I think it's.
00;22;49;14 - 00;23;04;11
Timmy Bauer
There's one other thing that kind of jumped into my brain as you were talking. And it's like one of the things that I try to do is I'll be pretty transparent with somebody if they're in my sales funnel, like, I'll be like, Hey, Rob, just so you know, you're now because you said you were interested, like you're now in my sales funnel.
00;23;04;16 - 00;23;19;20
Timmy Bauer
The way you get out is you tell me that you're not interested, like, and so it's like I have this separate thing, like we have a relationship that is like we're both people that care about these different topics. In business, you have this awesome podcast. Like there's a lot of reasons for us to be in relationship that are not.
00;23;19;20 - 00;23;29;27
Timmy Bauer
You're in my sales funnel, but also you're in my sales funnel, you know. So like I find that it's pretty disarming if I just tell that to the person and I'm like, The way you get out is you just tell me you're not interested.
00;23;29;29 - 00;24;04;13
Rob Napoli
Yeah, I love that. The more transparency, the better. It's all about intentionality and authenticity. Being transparent, being open and honest. That's what makes us all go around. So I love it. Kenny, I appreciate you coming back on, sharing a bit more diving into this topic. This is great. I appreciate you. I will make sure to drop all your socials in the and and the comments but any shoutouts you want to give on directing and where they should check you out and learn more about what you're doing.
00;24;05;07 - 00;24;23;18
Timmy Bauer
Dinosaur House If you have any interest in becoming a kids book author, becoming the kids book author for your niche or helping your audience connect deeply with their kids about what it is that you're passionate about, they're passionate about, or what they do for a living. If you're just like, curious about like. So I wrote a kid's book on entrepreneurship called Lucas the Dinosaur Entrepreneur.
00;24;23;22 - 00;24;31;12
Timmy Bauer
You can hear me read it for free on my YouTube channel. Timmy reads books or check me out on Tik Tok author Timmy awesome.
00;24;31;12 - 00;24;45;29
Rob Napoli
I'm actually those are all linked. I appreciate Timmy. Thank again for jumping on a second short episode. Have a wonderful rest today my guy. Appreciate you say nation go check out Tim is doing an intel next episode stairwell and rise up.
Outro
00;24;48;20 - 00;24;58;09
Rob Napoli
Bear Nation. Thanks for listening to the bare necessities of entrepreneurship. We enjoyed this episode. Please subscribe and leave us a review.